This Restorative Justice Life
Restorative Justice is often framed as an alternative to punishment, and but that’s only part of the story.
Dive deeper with David Ryan Barcega Castro-Harris in conversation with RJ practitioners and other justice seekers as they reflect on the things happening in the world around us to offer insight on how YOU can embody RJ philosophy, practices, and values in every aspect of your life.
This Restorative Justice Life
127. Restorative Justice and Youth Voice w/ Saniah Brown Jones
Our conversation with Saniah Brown Jones is the last in our series highlighting Restorative Justice in South Florida. She shares her wisdom and experiences as a young person who's been impacted by the RJ work and programing of our previous contributors. This episode is not just about Saniah's growth, but also about how restorative justice transforms lives, builds confidence, and creates spaces for growth and healing. This discussion is a testament to the power of understanding and the importance of providing safe spaces for growth.
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Welcome back to this Restorative Justice Life. My name is David Ryan, berserker, castro, harris all five names for all the ancestors and today I'm so excited to be here with Sonia Brown Jones to wrap up our series highlighting restorative justice in the South, specifically South Florida. Over the last month or so, we've been highlighting the work that so many folks have been doing in efforts to promote the Down South Restorative Justice Conference coming up in October. Links to find out all about that at the Florida Restorative Justice Association website down below. But, sonia, you're one of the people who have been impacted by the work of so many of the folks that we've had on the podcast over the last little bit, so I'm so excited to have you here to talk about your experiences as a young person with restorative justice work. But before we get to all of that, who are you?
Speaker 2:Well, just to start off, I am someone who is very excited to be here. I am grateful for this moment and I'm just taking it all in.
Speaker 1:Who are you?
Speaker 2:I am a big sister of five lovely younger siblings and I am an advocate for all things mental health, all things youth development.
Speaker 1:Who are you?
Speaker 2:I am an extrovert and I am one who enjoys knowing or figuring out the unknown.
Speaker 1:Who are you?
Speaker 2:I am someone who takes it day by day and learning all I can within these days, and that's all I can say.
Speaker 1:Who are you?
Speaker 2:I am one full of excitement, one full of ideas that I cannot wait to express once I figure out the way to fully express them.
Speaker 1:Who are you?
Speaker 2:I am happy in this moment and I am grateful for these opportunities that I have.
Speaker 1:And finally for now, who are you?
Speaker 2:I am someone who is ready.
Speaker 1:Let's get to it, talking about all the intersections of who you are, how you're showing up in this space. It's always good to start with a check-in. So, to the extent that you want to answer the question in this moment, how are you? You kind of already shared in the who are you, but how are you feeling?
Speaker 2:I feel good. I once again am excited and, yes, I just feel good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we had Ruth on a couple of weeks ago talking about her work with Fomsage and the community aspects of restorative justice that she and her organization and her community were doing, and you're one of the young people who is a part of that programming, and so I thought it was a really good way to wrap up this series talking to a young person who's been impacted by the work that so many have done. So oftentimes I'm asking restorative justice practitioners who have been in the work how did this get started for you, even if you didn't know the word restorative justice? But I'm curious for you. When you moved to South Florida and got in touch with Fomsage, what were the circumstances around that and what made you say that, oh, this is something that really makes sense for me?
Speaker 2:I was introduced to the program by one of my friends and I was like, oh, this is something new. This is something I've never done before. I met Ms Ruth and she has such a welcoming spirit which made me really want to be in the program. And then, once I got in the program, I met these new people and we did something called a circle, and in the circle we had a talking piece. It was very, it was something different from your regular conversation. Everyone was made sure that they are able to speak on what they would like, and I knew that this is what I wanted to be a part of, because they really let all the youth have a voice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you talked about the. It was a different way than conversations have been in the past. Right, what made you feel good about the way that that circle went, those kinds of conversations went?
Speaker 2:So what made me feel good is that when you are talking, you are actually being heard. You everyone is in this moment with you. So whatever you have to say, then you people are acknowledging what you say. And I feel like sometimes we don't take the moment to acknowledge what others are saying in other conversations. And so I was like a healing circle, healing justice. Whatever the circle was for that. That's what it plans to do is to make sure everyone is heard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, compared to other programs, you've been a part of other circumstances that you've experienced in conversation around conflict or having conversations about issues, whether it's in school, whether it's at home lots of different places. But restorative justice and circle practice does offer that space for deep listening, deep understanding, so y'all can move forward together in a good way. Right, you talked about circle being an important part of the program, but can you describe a little bit more about the program that you took part in with Fomsage?
Speaker 2:Yes, so this program started during COVID and it was based online and it was a healing youth program, and what we did is we taught each other practices of how to dig deeper within ourselves. So we talked, we spoke about restorative justice, healing justice, we practiced yoga, we learned about herbs, and none of these things I would have known of if I didn't join this program. When I did join this program, I was in a different state of mind that wasn't as open-minded as I am today, and this program helps you with this, with being more open-minded.
Speaker 1:You know, before we started recording, you talked to me about what you really wanted to share in this space. You had a friend invite you into that space, but it sounds like you were still a little bit skeptical or wary about what this was. What was your hesitation and how did you overcome it?
Speaker 2:I just thought it was something I never heard of, like I didn't know exactly how to think it was, because I just I did not know at all. I wasn't sure. But I think that's also why I did wanna join. The same reason why I was skeptical was the same reason I once again went to join. It was out of curiosity.
Speaker 1:Gotcha and so like. When you were in that program, right, you were learning a bunch of different things about healing justice, about restorative justice, about these ways of caring for yourself. What impact has that had on you as a person, a student, a family member, as someone who is moving into adulthood? We can start with just you as a person.
Speaker 2:So, when it comes to how restorative justice and healing justice impacted me as a person, it made me think on a deeper level rather than just a surface level. Rather than what I see in front of me when I am talking to people or when I react a certain way, I take a step back and I think about why I'm reacting a certain way or why someone else may be reacting a certain way. So healing justice, when you dig deep down, it goes back to your parents, on how you act, or your parents' parents, while we react in certain ways, and I acknowledge that and now I know that. So it allows me to react different. When I am in a moment where I might not know why I'm reacting, I know how to take a step back and reevaluate myself. And then, when it comes to restorative justice, I know how to listen to people more and I know how to set myself accountable and the other person accountable.
Speaker 1:I like what you said there, because when we think about restorative justice, so much of it is about repairing relationships with others. But what you pointed out is that there's so much about us internally right. When we say building, strengthening, repairing relationships, the first relationship that you have is with yourself, and when you think about the way that you've been socialized, trained, educated, even within the context of your family, there are patterns and behaviors that might not be serving you, might be causing some issues, and so both examining what's happening from other people's perspectives and their backgrounds, as well as your own, is really important to figure out how to get to the root cause of some of the issues that you're facing. I'm wondering if there are any specific examples of that that you're willing to share.
Speaker 2:What this program taught me is that my voice does matter when we're talking about practicing with circles, and having everyone sit around the talking piece allows that one person to be heard. So, before I started this program, I was one who thought that every time I spoke on how I felt I'm hindering somebody, like I'm just being too much of myself for the other person. So, as I've been, I'm still learning this. But this program has helped me to understand that what I say does matter and it's important to be heard, and I have built confidence to speak on things that I believe matter within my community, within myself, and that will be one experience.
Speaker 1:You know you talked about that message coming across that like if you use your voice, you're getting in somebody else's way. Where did you learn that?
Speaker 2:I believe I learned that from it can be multiple places. I've learned that. So let's just say, school, when you're younger, you're taught that if, since you're the kid, that what you say doesn't matter, because who's been here longer, it's a kid or the adult. So sometimes there were times that I believe that I mean everyone who went through this when we were silent because we were taught that we didn't know any better and that it's the adult speaking. You know, it's the how the adult. What the adult says is what it goes. So what that told me was like oh well, since I'm younger, I just I basically just don't know what I'm talking about and I should just, you know, just keep things to myself, like you know. And then I'm like I'm just keeping things to myself, like you know, and then it's unfortunate that I did think like that. But as time goes by, I'm coming out of that and I'm doing these practices that help that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you build that confidence for yourself and then you both build that in the space where you're practicing in circle. But how does that impact the way that you're interacting with adults in your life now?
Speaker 2:So it impacts it because, like you said, I built more confidence so the adult can see that or the person can see that I have more confidence in myself and that will help me be spoken to like I want to be spoken. If I say what I need to say to that person, I will receive the same energy back, and if I keep quiet, then that other person will not see what I really need in this conversation. Or or let's say, for instance, in work, If I don't speak up for myself, I'm not going to get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there are two things at play there. One, people aren't mind readers, right? If they don't know what's going on with you, they can't be responsive to your needs, and then arguably, they should proactively be asking you for that if we're trying to build a community based in restorative values, healing values, building and strengthening those relationships, so we're preventing crises where needs need to get met. But I'm curious, when you talk about that confidence, is there a specific example that you can think of when you've used your voice and being received well?
Speaker 2:I'm a personate of a club called Hype. It stands for Heritage, yields Pride and Excellence, and I've never had a role of being a president of a club before and I was very excited. But I was like how do I get these students to listen to me, or how do I coordinate events and whatnot. So I had a mentor. Her name was Mrs Smith, and I thought of myself just going along with the ideas that she said. But I had ideas of my own.
Speaker 2:But I was like, well, since she's the mentor, she knows what she's saying, and she for sure did, but I also know what I'm saying as well. So I was like, let me just try to give her my ideas. And I did, and that's how we created a podcast for Hype and it felt really good to know that my ideas were being expressed and she was also glad that I was expressing my ideas. And it was kind of just that self-sabotage, that doubt, that led me to be overthinking speaking up for myself in the first place. But that was a time where I did speak up and I told her my ideas and we made a podcast out of it. But we had nice outings because of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a space where your ideas were heard, validated and acted upon. Sometimes when we're in, sometimes as we navigate life, I think, both as adults and young people, there are people who won't validate or try to hear what you're trying to say, and that's really frustrating. If you had expressed those ideas to your mentor and had been shut down, how would you have dealt with that?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I believe I would have been like I would have went to over analyzing and like, well, you know why not. But then I would have came to a realization and see how I could introduce that same idea to Horay again, because when I really want to do something that I'm passionate about, I'll try to figure out a way to make it work. So I believe I would just want to make figured out a way to make it work. You know, like at first I would feel a type of way and I'll be discouraged, but I know that I would build that confidence back up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe before, before, you had this kind of confidence, if you had been shut down once, right, that would have been it. That would have been the end, right.
Speaker 2:It would have been like okay. Okay, thank you for the clarification that. My idea was just not good and I just would have been like okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah and like, prevent you from sharing more ideas in the future. And I think both as a message to adults and people in positions of power. You know, when people speak up and share like, that's a vulnerable thing, right, and we need to make sure that we're attentive to hearing people out and validating them for their contributions and, if possible, responding to those needs and ideas in that way. Sometimes there might be reasons that we logistically can't do those things, but instead of just shutting people down and saying like no, we're not going to do that, leaving them in a place where, like, oh, that was a dumb idea, I guess I should never speak about these things again, making sure that we're taking time to have a conversation about it or explain it. And if we can't do that in that moment, find another time to recalibrate and say maybe not this, but what if we do this instead? Right, and you know, from people who are young or not in positions of power, like, I think the other lesson that take from this is right Just because someone says no doesn't mean that's the end of the conversation.
Speaker 1:That was just that. That was just the response. Right, then Right? If no is the answer, the next question could be why not, right? No, could also be like well, what about? This doesn't work? Right, and then you get to further articulate what it is that, what it what it is about. Whatever your voicing, that's important or why it's important and why it could be beneficial to everyone in that space, right, and that's a hard thing, especially for folks who have had doors shut in their faces, who have had their ideas shut down over and over. But, as you were sharing, having practice in circle, where your ideas are seen, heard, validated, has application to building your capacity to be that way in the world. Hey, you didn't hear me. Maybe I need to try a different way of expressing myself, and that's a beautiful lesson. That is not necessarily about hey, how do we repair the harm in this relationship? But what is the miscommunication that happened? How can we understand each other in a better way from a leading up perspective?
Speaker 2:Yes. So I believe there's many ways and it just starts from hearing one another out, like everyone is not going to have the same perspective, but it doesn't mean that that perspective is wrong. So, going back to what you said before about asking those why and why not when you get shut down, that is something that was hard for me and still is a little difficult. Asking that why? Because I was taught that you shouldn't question a higher authority. It's something that had to identify within myself. That that's not you. Questioning someone is not automatically being disrespectful. It's just because you are curious on the ways you can improve. Being in the youth program with Fomsage and being able to express how I feel and showing that showing but asking questions when I do have a question has helped me and other environments.
Speaker 1:Like what.
Speaker 2:So with my job I, when I first started the job I have now, it was a lot of information at once. So my job at anxiety center of Tampa, I am an intake coordinator, so a part of that, I kind of have to tell the clinicians what to do in a certain way, like I'm not bossing anyone around but I have I'm. It's difficult for me to be authoritative in some ways. So when I don't understand something with someone at my job, I Am now able to tell them why I don't understand and look at it in this and show my way of how would she be ran. But I feel like Old me or me without Knowing what I know. Now, because of the youth program, I believe I would just go with what they say because it is what that higher authority said. So I'm just comfortable with expressing my opinions and my ideas, my questions.
Speaker 1:When has that been beneficial like? Is there a specific circumstance that you can talk about?
Speaker 2:So it's been beneficial when miscommunication has happened with a clinician and someone who wants to be Treated by one of the clinicians at my job and I just I Just say, oh well, I believe that it can be ran this way, or I just put my two sins in and then the clinician ends up agreeing and believes that that's the way we should go. And if I would have never said that then we would have still been in a predicament and stuck, you know.
Speaker 1:So that's one of the ways right and feeling empowered to do that, both as Somebody who is an employee, right but also someone who has built up internal confidence to show up and advocate for those patients. Um is so important, right, and people can think about how that applies to their context, whether they're working in a mental health setting, working in an education setting, working in a space where you have to advocate on behalf of other people, right, sometimes you're able to bring those direct lines of communications between people and sometimes you're able to articulate the needs of the people that you're working with and the needs that you have to do your job Well to people who have hierarchical power over you in the organization. Like it's a challenge but it's so doable. It just takes that Vulnerability, that step of like what I'm saying is valid and I'm gonna. I'm gonna stand up for myself. So we talked about what it looks like in a mentorship School program. We talked about what this kind of looks like in the capacity of your job. What about in your relationships with family or friends?
Speaker 2:so I have five siblings, all under the age of 12, so they're over here like I don't care what you say, I'm right and you know a lot of arguing, you know which is normal, but I am very good at evaluating the situation.
Speaker 2:When my siblings are arguing, I'm like did you hear what? For instance, my little sister, what did you hear when mohari said, when she was explaining to you how she didn't like, how you Didn't want to play with her? That's why she has this attitude. It's not just for any reason. She has an attitude because you didn't listen to her when she wanted to play with you. And then they're just like, oh, like they. I'm able to evaluate certain mishap when arguments happen in my household, like I'm the one people come to, not people my family comes to within the house, when it's like they know that they were, they, this, this situation can be handled, and I some way put them in a circle of somehow, like within my mind they're not actually in a circle, but like I know how to evaluate the steps that everyone, so everyone is heard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can you explain how you break that down without sitting people down like and pass a talking piece?
Speaker 2:so I'm just like I let them. Okay. So let's say I'm with all my siblings. I make sure that they understand that whoever's talking right now, that's the only person who will be talking, and then everyone will have a chance to express how they feel. And before we do that, I I Give a prompt out, like what the issue is that they came with me with, and then that's the main. That's the topic of why we're coming together and talking right now. And then sometimes they're just like oh, like you're, they're lame and stuff like why are we doing this? But then after, like they understand, like, oh, okay, this makes sense and it's helped out a lot, even with friendships um, talking to my friends about Things that they know they shouldn't do, but they still need someone to talk to it about and hear them out.
Speaker 1:And then we talk by together and then they come to the realization that they know what's the right idea in the first place right, I'm thinking about the work that I do professionally facilitating these kinds of spaces, um, but also the way that this plays out in interpersonal dynamics, like with my wife, for example, or friends. Right, so often it's that people really just need to be heard and understood and then also know that they've been heard and understood right. And so if, in those moments when you're with your siblings and making sure that, um, you said mahari like, is heard and seen and validated by you, know your four other siblings for the thing that happened that made her upset, right, and they have that understanding now and like, oh so we're not going to do that to make mahari upset anymore right.
Speaker 2:Like, one thing about mahari is she's going to say what she has to say and how she feels, so and I love that she's like that. That is actually very, um, inspiring. And she's five, because I'm like dang like that's good for you. You say what you need to say and that's, that's how it should be and yeah, everyone out and making sure that, like Her expression, doesn't fall on deaf ears.
Speaker 1:Or right, oh, we don't care what you're saying, you're just five. Right, you were, we're older, you have to do what we say. Right, the same dynamics that you've experienced as a young person in school. Right, like that, those things don't get replicated.
Speaker 1:I think about a situation in a workplace that I am dealing with, where I brought folks together. There was this thing that happened, um, and we just needed to have them talk to each other about, like, we're all hurting because of this. And because we're hurting, people have lashed out in Ways that aren't great and that have caused harm, but it's all coming from this place of hurt. We want to Do the work of our organization well, but this thing is hurting Like this. This thing that's happened has left a wound and we haven't like processed it together.
Speaker 1:And having the ability to process it together and let your colleagues know that, like, hey, you're hurting too. Um, while it didn't necessarily heal the wound that From that event that happened, it did allow them to see each other as like, oh, we're all in this together and what are the things that we can do to be responsive to each other's needs in this time of transition for all of us right and oh, and you know, the feedback that I got just from that space, from one person in particular, was just about like wow, like it was just amazing to be like heard and seen for like what I was going through. I didn't have any idea that my other colleagues felt this way, and now I do, and we can move forward together in a good way.
Speaker 2:Yes or or a better way.
Speaker 2:Right. It's a beautiful thing when you See the difference of someone after they have said what they needed to say. I went to New Orleans with bomb Saatch youth program. We all went to New Orleans and we facilitated a circle for our dignity in schools and the circle was about generational, generational trauma and how that affects us now and how can we change it moving forward. And when I tell you they were just, they were getting everything out that you can tell that they've been bottling up for so long and it just felt nice to be that person for them or be this program for them where they can Say what they need to say, because that's a part of healing as well. And you know there were tears and it was just a very vulnerable moment that everyone needed in that moment and I'm grateful and I know the people I was in that circle with are grateful for that moment. It was very nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I Think sometimes, because I'm in this work All the time, every day I take for granted that like People are listened to, or like people create space for people to listen to them, and like I also find myself Slipping in my own life right where, like I'm upset about something that's going on at home and like my wife and I are talking past each other, like we're both saying like why we're hurt, but not necessarily Listening to what's going on right.
Speaker 1:So it's one thing to like be able to express the thing, but like when both people are in places of hurt Sorry, somebody just texted me when both people are in places of hurt, we need to take a moment, or at least one person needs to take a moment to step back and say like, oh, I hear the feelings and the needs that are underlying the words that you're saying right now, right, and allow you to be seen and heard from them, and then maybe we can move forward together in a good way. I'm curious with that circle on generational trauma with the schools, what, what came out of it other than people like feeling seen, heard, validated.
Speaker 2:Friendships, different connections and relations. A lot of people related on certain topics that they just thought they were alone in. So friendships were created. A lot of people related in certain ways that they just thought they were the only one who went through this. So once again, we talked about generational trauma and a lot of people talked about their fathers not being present and how much that affected their themselves or how much that affected the other male figure in their household, like their brother, and how much, since, that affected that other person in the household. It affected them and it was a very sensitive topic for many people.
Speaker 2:But knowing that someone else, what do that same thing. They kind of found a common ground to connect on and to give each other there, like their own, feedback of how to move forward with how this affected you and whatnot. So, yes, friendships were made after, of course, there was, you know, tears, but after it was smiling and we played a game and everyone was just closer than before, because we're in New Orleans, no one really knows each other like that. You know, we're all in these different organizations. So what initially came out of all of this was the connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what's important to highlight out of that is sometimes, when we gather in circle or If we limit restorative justice in our mind to like it is going to, whatever we're talking about is going to be resolved or solved In this hour, 90 minutes, two hours day that we're sitting together, we're missing the point right.
Speaker 1:So much of what this work is is the impact that goes beyond, like, those specific spaces.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we'll come to specific agreements about how we're gonna move forward together in a good way if we're talking about conflict or an issue, but, like, what's important for those agreements is that we follow up on those things and continue to build those relationships. Right within that context of the circle around generational trauma, you all shared things about experiences that were similar and, while there's not explicit agreements about and now we're gonna come back together to talk about this again and be best friends and Help support each other through this right, there were informal things, informal connections that were made that have had positive impact on lots of different people in that spaces, both just in general having a positive experience in circle, which I think is always a great thing but you also are in relationship with people who are struggling with similar things and can be of help to you, whether it's them personally being of help or connecting folks to resources. But you wouldn't have had that without spending that time deeply listening to each other and deeply sharing.
Speaker 2:Yes, one thing I could say is holding these circles. It's never forced connection. It all falls into place, especially once people are being heard and they get that Comfort within being around these people like the circle. It's never forced connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've experienced this work. I'm pretty early on in life. I'm curious how you think about this Impacting your career choices moving forward or your education choices moving forward. I know mental health is important to you. How do you plan to bring restorative justice, healing justice frameworks into your career as you progress?
Speaker 2:So I just graduated high school and before I graduated, my mind was set on being a child developmental therapist. I later than have been. I have been thinking about being a industrial organizational psychologist. Now what this looks at is more of the business, marketing wise, and when we talk about the business, the face Behind the business, so the people who are working there. How are they being treated? What is going on in this workforce? And that can also be a reason why the business is not doing well. Or it could be a reason why the business is doing well based on how the coworkers are being treated. So I believe it's an Okay.
Speaker 2:So let's just go back a little bit. Sometimes in the workforce, people are just Worked like machines and not really thought of as humans. Sometimes like we're here to work, but we have. We're human, you know. So if we're not being heard, we can't work to do our best selves. We're not gonna be do our best in our job. So I would be that person to identify how can this business be better by the people who are working there? So I would be sitting with the workers and I believe that's very important, because that's how this job, your business, gets better.
Speaker 1:It's great that you have that Analysis as such a young person, and I'm curious whether it's from your personal experience or your friends, like what Experience being a worker has been like within organizations and how you wish it could have been better for me it hasn't been any situation where I did not feel that I was being appreciated in the workforce, but my friends have told me their experiences.
Speaker 2:So, for instance, some of my friends won't get their schedule until the day that they have to work. So it's it's unfortunate, because I believe some companies don't look at how we have families and Everyone's transportation is different, I Feel like, or companies have to take in consideration what everyone has going on at home before they do certain. They have certain decisions, because my friend who that was, she was not able to get to work that day and then she has a chance of being fired, but it was not her, she could not help that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and on the businesses side, right, we think about like there were circumstances that led up to that last isn't last minute decision being made and, as an Organizational psychologist, right, or somebody who's working on that level, thinking about what are the systems that we can put in place to not schedule people or like put schedules out like way ahead of time. Of course they're always going to be last-minute things where coverage needs to happen but to put people in this state of urgency Go, go, go. Being able to respond like doesn't necessarily put folks in the best position Right to show up and do the best work for your organization, much less show up for themselves in a good way.
Speaker 2:Right because this was on a consistent basis. It felt like the let's just say, the manager felt like they had a type of control on this person when they knew that if they could not come, then there's a chance with me them being fired so and that does not. That's not a good relationship that you should have in In the workforce.
Speaker 1:Right. I think there has to be this acknowledgement that, especially in the workforce that we live in with, or economic conditions that we live in, with so much instability for folks, folks are in many ways reliant on their employers for, you know, taking care of daily needs. Of course we should systemically work towards that. Not being the case, but like acknowledging where we're at, making sure that we're honoring the humans and the families that go along with those humans and all the other life circumstances that come along with those humans as they work with us, is so important. It's tough to do, it's tough to slow down within the context of work environment, corporate world. What food service, healthcare industry that is so fast paced and relies on productivity over taking care of people? But we can change those things, we can slow down.
Speaker 1:Amplifyrj helps have conversations about those. Even though I'm not like an organizational psychologist, I've got a background in sociology and social justice and all of those things. So you know I'll let you boy, but you know and world, look out for a couple years from now when Sonia has her degree. Of course I'm not holding you to that. I'm someone who changed degrees what? Three times. But you know I'm glad that's the things that you're thinking about now. Thank you so much for that, so be on the lookout for all things Sonia in in the next couple years. Now it's time for the questions that everybody answers when they come on this podcast. You know we've talked around these ideas, but in your own words, define restorative justice.
Speaker 2:So restorative justice to me is looking at the reason why someone did the action and not going just by punishing them after they did the action, digging deep down on how one can be accountable in other ways rather than punishment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure, as you've been doing this work over the past couple years, what has been an oh shit moment and that can also. That can be either like oh shit, like I messed up, I wish I did something differently. Or it could also be like, ah shit, I did that and it was awesome.
Speaker 2:I believe when you're trying something that you're not used to like when I first started restorative justice, even now you're going to mess up. So my like, the first one like, oh, like, oh man, like was when I went to is when I went to New Orleans and I just got completely sidetracked, like I just got caught up in the moment where I got sidetracked and it didn't go the way that I thought it was going to go. But that doesn't mean it didn't go right, because it was awesome, but it didn't go the way I want it to go. So my head I was like, oh man, like no, but it was okay. I think of the day it was okay, but that was definitely those moments.
Speaker 1:It's a delicate balance between staying with a plan and being responsive to a moment, and like there's a difference between, like, being responsive to a moment and getting caught up in a moment, like knowing when to.
Speaker 1:Like oh, we're sidetracked and we're going to get back to the plan.
Speaker 1:Or like, hey, let's see where this takes us. Right and based off of the relationships that you have, based off the experience and the goals and the limited time that you have in a space, there is no one right answer, but you learn from those experiences, right, and so, while I'm thinking about even this week where I was facilitating a space where this person went on a tangent that, like I probably should have cut them off Right because it took up the time that we had left and like nobody else got to check out in that space, like the relationships in that space aren't over. So we can make sure that we're going to follow up on some of those things that didn't get said right. So, like, even though I made a mistake in the moment, or like the impact of my actions, like didn't allow other people to speak, it's not over, we can always go back and continue those relationships, continue the dialogue, so like we don't get stuck in like oh, that happened and I guess that's that. Restorative justice means we can always go back and repair.
Speaker 2:I thought, just because I had an agenda had to stick to that, and if I didn't, then I completely messed up. And that is not true at all and I'm glad I realized that. But my other type of moment where I was like okay, like I did that, is when I held a circle with Lulu, who was also part of the farm program. We held a circle on zoom and it had about 80 people on it from all like all over, and that was just a proud moment because I've never spoken to that many people at once.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you're currently speaking to a couple hundred people, but I know like hi guys.
Speaker 2:So you know that was. That was a proud moment.
Speaker 1:Okay, this question is tough in a different way. You get to sit in circle with four people, living or dead. Who are they and what is the one question you asked that circle?
Speaker 2:One would be I don't know I don't know if it would be cliche or not, but the first two would be my mother and my father, and I say this because I believe parents feel like, since they are parents, they have no room to express themselves on a deeper level. So I would want them to have the chance to be able to express themselves and just dig deeper within their childhood, how it was before I came along, and just have that that moment with them. The other two people would be the singer called Shade. I believe her whole aura is very comforting and I would like to know how she got on a level of awareness, because I look at some of her meetings and I believe that I can learn much from her. Another person that would have my circle is Miss Ruth, because she also has a very welcoming aura and her presence is very calm, and I would love to know more about her culture and be able to speak to her on a level to where it's just her speaking in that moment.
Speaker 1:So you put Shade, Miss Ruth and your parents in a circle. What is the one question you ask them?
Speaker 2:The one question I would ask them is is your life how you expected in this moment?
Speaker 1:Is your life in this moment, in the space where you thought it would be.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:How's it different?
Speaker 2:It's different because I'm willing to step outside the box and I'm willing to do the things that I never thought I would, just to see what it would take me. I believe that I wouldn't have been able to do that without the things that I know now and the people I've met. So, yes, that's how it differs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and who thought you would be on this podcast?
Speaker 2:That's cool.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, beautiful. You know, kind of, as we're transitioning out of here, how can people support you and your work, or the work of Fomsage and the ways that you'll want to be supported?
Speaker 2:Yes. So ways that you can support or people out there can support Fomsage is first following us on Instagram, fomsage Inc. It will be tagged somewhere, I believe, and the other lookout for all the events we have for youth and adults of all ages everyone. We do have a youth program coming up, so if you are interested, just look at our website, fomsage Ways. You can support me by following my Instagram. That will also be tagged. And just look at my journey, because you know I'm just doing what feels right in the moment and you can be a part of whatever I decide to do.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, so we'll make sure the links to that are in the description summary wherever you're listening or watching this podcast. Sanaya, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your stories, your experiences embracing this restorative justice life. Again, this is concluding our series highlighting restorative justice in the south south Florida, specifically in efforts to support the RJ Downsouth conference sorry, the restorative justice down south conference, rj. The remix coming up in October links to that at the Florida restorative justice association website. But again, thank you so much for tuning in. We'll be back next week with another person living this restorative justice life. Until then, y'all take care.
