This Restorative Justice Life
Restorative Justice is often framed as an alternative to punishment, and but that’s only part of the story.
Dive deeper with David Ryan Barcega Castro-Harris in conversation with RJ practitioners and other justice seekers as they reflect on the things happening in the world around us to offer insight on how YOU can embody RJ philosophy, practices, and values in every aspect of your life.
This Restorative Justice Life
Abbott Elementary S1E2 "Lightbulb" w/ Tamara Moore (Restorative Justice Reflections)
See our beautiful faces and the video clips on YouTube.
How can you use Restorative Justice to combat senses of urgency, prevent burnout, and navigate tension between parents and school staff? Find out on this episode of Restorative Justice Reflections!
Join our LIVE “Restorative Justice Lessons from Abbott Elementary” event July 31: http://tiny.cc/ARJabbott
Access unreleased episodes NOW, connect with other RJ minded individuals and get other benefits by joining “The Inner Circle”: https://amplifyrj.thinkific.com/courses/inner-circle
Support Tamara
Website: https://ifpencilscouldtalk.com/
Socials: https://www.instagram.com/ifpencilscouldtalk/
Send us feedback at media@amplifyrj.com
Join our Amplify RJ Community platform to connect with others doing this work!
Check out our latest learning opportunities HERE
Rep Amplify RJ Merch
Connect with us on:
Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Threads, YouTube, and TikTok!
SUPPORT by sharing this podcast and leaving a rating or review
What did you do? Looking like who shot John Barbara look, i know you told me to let it go, but I couldn't. Jacob helped me open the breaker.
Speaker 2:There was a chance to support a strong black woman, the breaker.
Speaker 1:Janine, You can't do this stuff. What had you come to work today and lose your mind? Do I have your consent to slap you? There she goes. Go, go, go.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to Restored of Justice Reflections. I'm your host, steve, with Ryan Barca, and I'm here with Castro Harris all five names for all the ancestors. And today I'm here with Tamara Moore to dive into the Restorative themes or lack thereof down in Season 1, episode 2 of ABC's hit show Abba, elementary Lightbulb. As always, our conversation here is not to critique the story or production choices of the creators, but we will highlight how Restorative Justice could apply to situations like prioritizing multiple urgent needs in the classroom, navigating parent-teacher relationships and setting boundaries to work within your capacity. Hopefully, this will give you some insight into applying Restorative Justice ways of being inside and out of the classroom.
Speaker 3:If you want a deeper look into applying Restorative Justice to your everyday life, join our inner circle to connect with other RJ-minded folks and get bonus content. If you want to deepen your practice, check out our courses. and if you want to see this work in your school or organization, invite us for coaching or training so we can help you implement this way of being into your community. Of course links to everything in the description. now let's get to it, tamara, welcome. Hey, tell the people about yourself.
Speaker 4:Hi, my name is Tamara Moore. I grew up in Southern California, right outside of Los Angeles, and I am a former teacher, current administrator. I was in the classroom for about, i would say I think seven years. Two of those years were in California, the rest of it was here in Colorado, and now I am an administrator at a preschool. So yeah, hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. it's so good to have you, and as I was thinking about people who I wanted to have conversations about the show with, i thought of you from the work that I've seen from you on the internet and all those things, but also the connections that we've made through, i guess, again the internet and our Instagram friends, but having a conversation about how the elementary has been something that I've been wanting to do for a long time. why does this show have been so important for you?
Speaker 4:You know, i just feel so seen in it, and sometimes it's in the most affirming ways, and other times I see myself in Janine and I'm like, oh no, you know. so it gives me a chance to reflect on my own time in the classroom and even in my role now as an administrator, through a comedic lens. So I think it's both healing, affirming and eye-opening all in a fun package.
Speaker 3:Perfect way for us to reflect on our practices, both as educators and people navigating the world Right. In this episode titled Lightbulb, we see two major storylines playing out, one centered on Janine, one on Gregory. Just general impressions of the episode overall. What came up for you?
Speaker 4:I think this is one of those episodes where I really saw myself in Janine. I think you know her kind of go-getter attitude of wanting to fix the thing immediately and feeling its sense of urgency and wanting to find the way right now I think is something that I can connect to as a teacher but also contributed just like the way it happened with Janine like also contributed to big mistakes that I've made as an educator too. So I definitely think this was one of those mirror episodes where I really saw myself in. You know her like her ferociousness, ferocity, how fierce she was in trying to get this problem fixed, but also how her efforts ended up backfiring because of how she went about it. And I also can connect to Gregory too in like those early years of teaching, kind of being nervous to talk to parents and even in switching roles and switching roles into admin and having access to more families and more caregivers, really trying to find that confidence again to build those relationships when tough conversations come up. So I really saw myself a lot in this episode.
Speaker 3:And so let's get into it. Right. We have Janine witnessing a like a scared child right and wanting to do something to fix the problem, right. So let's get into it, melina?
Speaker 1:what's wrong? I don't want to walk down the hallway, miss Janine. It's scary. I don't want to go to school. Hey, mr Johnson, these lights have been going on and off for weeks. Are you going to do anything about them? The kids don't even want to walk in. But my pay grade, janine. I make most electric things work with the makeshift system I've had since 92. For this.
Speaker 2:we got to wait on electricity. I'm going fishing, I get to it.
Speaker 3:Mr Johnson, the custodian's not there, and so Janine, in all of her tenacity, ferocity, like can do, pull myself up by my bootstraps right Like goes and tries to fix it herself, leading to so much more problems that like have impact across the rest of the school.
Speaker 1:Oh, look at this. It was just a loose wire.
Speaker 3:Right, you know I'm sure you haven't done anything to that. No, I haven't Right, but can you think about a time in your early teaching career or maybe not not even early like as you've gone through your journey through education, Think of a time where you overstepped?
Speaker 4:Yeah, i mean, i think it definitely wasn't on the same scale of like causing a gigantic school disaster, but I think What I really related to in this particular situation was like she was unwilling to wait, like unwilling to take the appropriate steps to get the thing that she needed because of how she saw This one student react and she didn't take the time to like okay, what's the size of this problem and you know, and how, how is it really impacting the students in the day to day? And I think I can't necessarily think of a particular situation, but I think It, that kind of energy that Janine has, is something that I also shared, or can share, when I was in the classroom, and I think it contributed a lot to me just being so exhausted Because there's so, there's so much in education that can be Fix, whether it's the physical building, like my previous classroom I didn't have air conditioning.
Speaker 4:So, whether it's, like you know, the physical building or the actual practices and policies, that being, that are being put into place, that really can cause a lot of harm to a lot of students and I have the tendency to like, just want to fix it now, so I'll go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go go, and I won't stop and think, okay, what's the best way to get the result that will be best for the students, but in a way where I can Sustain it and in a way where I'm really relying on the expertise of other teachers and Other leaders in education to help guide me on the way, like I don't have to do it by myself. And sometimes that means you just have to think, you just have to pause, just have to breathe.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, or like, are you even the right person to be trying to fix the problem right? And I think, like Jeanine does think about like, oh, like I could ask for help, but mr Johnson just doesn't happen to be there and like, in that urgency she's like, okay, cool, i'm gonna fix it myself, like. Or mr Johnson just comes back, he's got his system for fixing the lights and like, click, click, click, click, click.
Speaker 3:Yeah done right and it would have saved everybody so much more heartache.
Speaker 3:But like it is hard to ask for help. It is hard to be in the position where you feel like you're the only one right and as I was watching this episode, i was thinking about so many characteristics of white supremacy culture that were coming up right the urgency, the saviors and the paternalism Like I'm the only one mentality who can fix this. And right, janine's not a white person, right, but Janine is Somebody who you know went to pen and like navigated Systems of white supremacy well, and like this has been ingrained in her and in many teachers right, and teacher education Programs. And just like the general ethos around, like you know, teachers got to be self-sacrificial, they've got to do everything, they got to go above and beyond. Like that's damaging for not only for like the school in this instance, but like for Janine as a person right in the dynamic we see in between her and her boo right, like she's so giving, she's overly giving, right, and like that is leading her to a place where she's not able to function the best that she can.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think that that piece that you spoke to about her being able because she went to pen, being able to be like Good at navigating these white spaces is something that I also can connect to, because in my own, in my own Education as a student, i went to private Catholic school, in middle school, in high school.
Speaker 4:So so much of that saviorist mentality was literally embedded into my education and into what I believed would make me a good person, let alone a good, a good educator. But, similar to Janine, like oftentimes when I've done things, not just even in the classroom, like I didn't have to be the one to do It I might not have been the best person to do it, but because I've been, so, you know, conditioned by our culture to think like urgency is the most important thing, that there is no time to Rest or to figure things out or to dissect a problem in a way that will allow you to fix it correctly I think I, yeah, this just was one of those things where I was like dang, i See myself in this and see the difference in myself as an educator in my first year and where I am now. I think my first year is really like scream, janine.
Speaker 3:As you think about, like you know how you navigate Issues like and let's be real, like urgent problems Right now. What are the things that you go through in your mind to help you navigate those differently?
Speaker 4:First I I know this sounds like so cliche, but I do have to be like, okay, breathe, you know, because I'm one of those people that do see, i See it all in front of me, good or bad, like I can't. it's hard for me to prioritize What is actually the most urgent thing. So I think I Often have to tell myself, like calm down, There is time, regardless of what the problem is like. we've had leaks at my most recent school All throughout winter, so you know it would be wild for me to get on a ladder, try to go up into, up into the ceiling and try to fix it right.
Speaker 4:So I've had to learn like who are the people I can really rely on at this school or really my previous school, where I had Most of my teaching experience that can help me navigate issues in a way that I feel like I can lean on them and we can like lean on each other and work together. that I want to make sure that whoever is in the room helping me solve whatever problem or situation that we have represents the community of students that we serve. It has a lot of diverse voices in the room. I never just want like one position of person, one background of a person, like I want to make sure that I'm having as many voices as I can, but always keeping, you know, the kids at the forefront, but in a way that is supportive to them and not trying to save them, which is, of course, easier said, you know, than done.
Speaker 4:And I think I really have found that my greatest strength was always finding a buddy at really any school that I worked at, and you can kind of see that in this episode with Gregory, when he when he's talking to Barb right, yeah, talking to Barb how he's like really leaning on that experience to help him solve his, his need in this episode. So having those kind of people in your immediate circle as an educator can really help kind of prevent problems getting into bigger problems and has helped me realize, like I don't need to do it by myself. I'm not the only one that can do things. There's lots of people that can help me achieve whatever it is that I want to achieve in education and I can do it alongside them. I don't have to, i don't have to rush, i don't have to run to do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, it reminds me and this is not a direct quote and I can't attribute it to anyone right? But like your 20s are a time where you think like you can change the world and save everyone. And right, both of us being in our 30s is like you know, this is the time where we try to navigate the world as it is Right, still advocating for the changes that we want to make, but like we're limited people with like finite bandwidth and resources. And so what are the ways that we're going to do that? just because and you know, going back to what Melissa says like just because, like we're not running to face like every single problem, throwing ourselves in front of all of these issues and burning ourselves out doesn't mean like there's not care, it's just being right strategic about where you're going to exercise your resources.
Speaker 4:Yes, And it feels so.
Speaker 4:It feels so hard to do that, I'm sure, in any profession, but in education particularly, because it just feels like such a grind all the time And it's one of those jobs or professions where you're never really like done.
Speaker 4:You know like you can go home and finish your sack of grading papers or finishing like the paperwork of it all, But you still carry so much of the experience of the day with you At least I did. You know wherever I went and it's hard to learn how to how to put that down and it's hard to do it in a system and in a society that tells us like who else will be there for them. You know like you have to do everything right now, but learning to navigate your own needs and your own, you know bandwidths within a system that can be. So sometimes I felt like like almost like suffocating with the pressure of being a teacher. Sometimes it's beautiful that these two teachers are able to impart their knowledge. You know, on Jeanine and Gregory, like it's going to be okay, We care, We're taking care of ourselves because we care so that we can be here And I love that.
Speaker 3:If you're appreciating this video, like to help us in the YouTube algorithm. Subscribe so you won't miss a video, and share it with someone to help us further amplify this work. Now back to the show. So we'll get to the Gregory and Barbara of it all. But even right, janine has this conversation with Melissa.
Speaker 1:How do you and Barbara stop yourselves from caring too much about the thing? Because it's the opposite. We care so much we refuse to burn out. If we burn out, who's here for these kids? That's why you got to take care of yourself.
Speaker 3:And making sure that you are working within your capacity requires that you are honest with yourself about what you can do and what are the boundaries that you're setting. And those are things that obviously easier said than done, often opposite of what you're told to do by society or maybe by your peers or by your administration. But, like, if you want longevity in this work and I think you know we can think about this in terms of education, but we can think about it also in other ways that we show up in the world in partnership, as parents, all these friendships and all these things. Right, what are our boundaries and how are we going to make sure that we are operating from a place where we can give, not from a place of lack? So, so important. We also have this dynamic where Jeanine is viewing the other teachers around her is like, oh, you don't care, right, but yeah, and you shared, like why that wasn't necessarily the case. It was highlighted in the show. What was it that you wanted to say?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I just wanted to share when Jeanine was going up the ladder, originally to fix the fix the light.
Speaker 4:The more senior teachers are just used to giving in, but I, however, am young, spritely, and know where they keep the ladder And she was mistaking, mistaking the, the more experienced teachers, lack of urgency as like a lack of care, and I think that that is something as new teachers that I personally experience, like why aren't, why am I feeling like this? and they're feeling like that, but really it was them trying to tell her and to show her like, in order to maintain your longevity in this profession, in order to maintain your ability to show up for the kids how Jeanine so clearly wants to, she has to be able to differentiate between when is she the best for the job. Is this really? is this really what she needs to be focusing on? and how can she fix the problem in a way that's collaborative and community based and not just really about Jeanine's kind of like saviorist mentality in this situation?
Speaker 3:On the other side of this episode we have Gregory, who's new to the school right. He is new to teaching and is having a really hard time with this student who is habitually coming to class late. So we went over the days of the week now.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute, baby sit down.
Speaker 2:It's nine.
Speaker 4:What.
Speaker 2:The school starts earlier than that.
Speaker 1:Look, I know you're just a sub, but these kids need to be in their seats by eight o'clock. It's a school requirement I understand. Six times in two weeks that kid's been late Seems like a drop in the bucket, but then that bucket overflows and everything gets sticky. We don't want to get sticky, do we?
Speaker 3:And right, these are first graders And so it's not on a first grader to like make sure that they're on time for school. It's a parent thing, and so when we have parents coming in, having those kinds of conversations is difficult, can be difficult for people. Gregory is really hesitant about doing that. He says, hey, i'm a sub, this isn't me, that's not my role. You mentioned that you've had experiences as a young teacher and now as a young administrator, starting to generate those conversations. When you saw this another moment of reflection what came up for you?
Speaker 4:I was instantly like I feel you, because I think my struggle with communicating with parents has always stemmed from wanting to make sure that I'm respecting their position. Right, like, yes, we're on the same team for whichever kiddo we have the concern about, or there's a conversation we want to have, but ultimately the parent is in a position that I'm not in. And I've always wanted to try to be mindful of how I communicate information to families and caregivers to make sure that they know that I'm not coming from a place of judgment. But I think sometimes, in worrying so much about how the information will be received or how my own anxiety about a conversation might take over and I have unfortunately not had hard conversations that I know I should have ultimately hurts the student, right, like, if I'm allowing my own fears of the conversation to prevent me from communicating a need, it doesn't help the kid at all And I think Barb said something to that effect.
Speaker 4:When Gregory went into Barb's classroom and was trying to talk to her about it, barb mentioned something about that. Like she didn't say this exactly, but the feel was like you're still the advocate, like you're a part of this kid's education and you need to speak up when you see that there's something that needs to be said. And I think when we earlier were talking about us connecting through social media, i think that's actually what has been so powerful for me with my social media account, and meeting other teachers through Instagram is really seeing like I have a voice. I have a voice I can use. I have a voice that I can use to advocate, and it doesn't have to always be big, giant gestures of advocacy. It really can be those important conversations that we have to have with families, and those are just as significant and as important as some of those larger pieces of advocacy that we see on all the people that we follow on Instagram.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, i think a lot about how we are often so scared to have these one-to-one conversations because we think about all the worst-case scenarios that could possibly happen. And what is helpful if you're overwhelmed by some of those is to think about that. and what would you do if the parent came back and you were like after you, you don't know anything about my life and all these things, but you can figure out how you might be able to respond to that, also recognizing that their response is not about you. But even in this scenario, what is the most likely outcome? The parents just like hey, i thought this was basically daycare, i didn't know that. They were like for real for real learning already Hey, and I'll do better.
Speaker 2:So your son Joel, you've been bringing him to school at nine. School starts at eight. Is there a reason for this?
Speaker 1:Well, nozzie, i start my shift at my job at nine thirty, so it's easy for me to drop him off before that and go straight to work instead of going home, or whatever.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:Can I get some rhinestones that say I'm not afraid of awkward interactions?
Speaker 3:Literally or metaphorically, because I can do that design. It'll just be $50 extra.
Speaker 2:Well, I hear what you're saying, Amber. Your son needs to be at school at eight. He's missing a lot of vital learning.
Speaker 1:Word. I thought you all just be playing with blocks and stuff.
Speaker 2:No, it's just in daycare. By the time he comes in, we're already working on primary reading and math. He's always struggling to keep up.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would hate them to fall behind and have to retake the grade. I don't want that, but that's as much up to you as it is up to me.
Speaker 1:I get you. I don't want him to fall behind, he's just my kid.
Speaker 2:Very.
Speaker 1:Okay, i'll bring him at eight from now on.
Speaker 3:Right. And it was an easy conversation. It was an easy fix, i think. Sometimes, even sometimes in the context of work environments, sometimes in the context of interpersonal relationships like if we don't let people know what our needs are, if we don't let people know, like, the things that are going on, they can't be responsive to those needs. People aren't line readers. We can't assume that they know what we're wanting. And, as much as it can be intimidating to have those conversations, like you said at the beginning, you're on the same team, right?
Speaker 3:We're on the same team In the context of this like hey, we want your child to learn and move on to the next grade And we need them to be in class in order to do that.
Speaker 4:Right, yes, simple.
Speaker 3:And it was like Barb initiating that space where people, where Gregory and Amber, could talk and spark their relationship. We know what's coming down the line for that, but it just sometimes takes that one instance or one scenario to build connection, for moving forward, and it takes courage, right. But that one step can lead to so many more beautiful things.
Speaker 4:Yes, and it's. I love that scene so so much for so many reasons, especially like the context of it being in a nail salon. There were so many funny commentary there too, but just the fact that, like Barb did set Gregory up for success but didn't do it for him And he was still having to find that bravery and confidence in himself to have the conversation I mean, barb was right there It was like kind of pushing him along the way.
Speaker 4:But I loved that aspect of leadership or having a teacher coach. You can really do that for you. I think is so, so important in your early years in education And I was very lucky in my student teaching to have that And I also just loved that. While it's not always possible, you know, to have a lunch break and go get your nails done and set up the situation between a teacher and a caregiver.
Speaker 4:But I love that Gregory was able to meet the parent in a space that was comfortable for her and was able to speak her language about it And the way that he brought it up to her. There was no judgment in his voice And he was really thoughtful and careful about how he communicated it, but he was direct and got the point across and did it in a way that connected to her, obviously, and I loved that. I thought that that was really special and is kind of the key of those tough conversations is just really knowing your audience and knowing how you can communicate with this parent in a way that will advocate for the kid. So make sure you end up both being on the same team at the end of it. So I loved that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, it's. if we're thinking about, you know, restorative communication, right, say the problem without blame, right, what is the? what are the observable facts? right, late, missing instructional time? right, and we both want maximum instructional time, so, like it can be academic success. Can we make this happen And make the request of the person right? And there are like levels to how you do that in in circumstances that have more nuance, more complexity. We don't expect all of that out of the 21 minute sitcom, right, but you know it can be that simple sometimes, right, we just have to be bold enough, brave enough, have enough courage to initiate, right. And sometimes, if we need the support.
Speaker 3:Get the people to support us to help us do the do the thing.
Speaker 3:Now you've heard from us. Now we want to hear from you. Drop your restorative justice reflections from this episode in the comments And, if you want to be a part of a live community conversation about this show, We're hosting a live event on July 31st Unpacking Restorative Justice Lessons from Ava Elementary. Link down below. Hope to see you there. Before we go, time to ask the questions that everyone answers when they come on This version of Restorative Justice Reflections. Let's imagine you have the ear of Quinta and the writers Pitch yourself as a character on Ava Elementary and what is your story arc?
Speaker 4:So I would love to pitch myself as a character who was a new teacher to this school, maybe like mid-year. a mid-year new teacher who comes in with the knowledge of how to be an inclusive educator as far as, like LGBTQ inclusion in schools and including all the voices and stories of marginalized communities. But this teacher is able to somehow buddy up with Quinta and support Quinta in her journey of advocacy, without that aspect of saviorism that Quinta has, but also kind of bridge the gap between Barb and Quinta and help them see that, yes, advocacy is amazing and it is okay to advocate and speak up and make changes, but to do it in a way that is sustainable. And I think that, like me and Quinta with my character, i think we should be besties, of course.
Speaker 3:Of course, from your mouth to Quinta, the producers and writers, ears.
Speaker 4:I'm ready.
Speaker 3:Quinta Well, tamara. Thank you so much for wisdom, your stories, your reflections. Where can people support you and your work in the way that you want to be supported?
Speaker 4:Okay, so I would love if folks could just join me on my Instagram account, which is at if pencils can talk on Instagram. My partner, slash fiancee Shelby, and I are starting, you know, some new adventures in the coming months, so I'd love for folks to be a part of that Because hopefully, like the character I just pitched, she'll be able to see how, you know, advocacy can exist in many different ways and many different avenues, and I would love for people to be a part of that, of that new journey with me.
Speaker 3:So beautiful Well. Of course that'll be linked down below, but for our time together, thank you so much. We'll be back very soon reflecting on episode three of the elementary Take care.
Speaker 4:Yay, thank you.
