This Restorative Justice Life

49. Angola Dixon

September 02, 2021 David Ryan Castro-Harris Season 1 Episode 49
This Restorative Justice Life
49. Angola Dixon
Chapters
This Restorative Justice Life
49. Angola Dixon
Sep 02, 2021 Season 1 Episode 49
David Ryan Castro-Harris

Angola Dixon is on a mission to transform the way people communicate, build relationships, and resolve conflict. She has facilitated workshops for men, women and youth of diverse cultural backgrounds. 

You will meet Angola (1:52), check in with her (4:22), and understand how she got started and dealt with misunderstandings (7:28). She discusses her work in HR (20:19) and the origins of restorative practices (32:36). Finally, she answers the closing questions (48:28).

Make sure to subscribe, rate, review, and share!

Contact, Learn More, Support Angola!
Website: http://circlepulse.com
Social: https://twitter.com/DrGola 

Check out peacemaking circle resources from
https://www.circlepulse.com/resources.html
https://peacemaking.narf.org/ 

See all our workshops and courses at http://amplifyrj.com/learn
Future Ancestor Collective (Community Gatherings): http://tiny.cc/ARJcommunity
Rep Amplify RJ Gear at http://amplifyrj.threadless.com 

Watch our TikTok: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRAQd2VM/
You can connect with Amplify RJ:
Email list: http://tiny.cc/ARJemail
Instagram: http://instagram.com/amplify.rj
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/restorative-justice
Facebook: http://facebook.com/amplifyrj
Twitter: http://twitter.com/amplifyrj
Website: http://amplifyrj.com
Reading list: http://amplifyrj.com/reading-list

Show Notes Transcript

Angola Dixon is on a mission to transform the way people communicate, build relationships, and resolve conflict. She has facilitated workshops for men, women and youth of diverse cultural backgrounds. 

You will meet Angola (1:52), check in with her (4:22), and understand how she got started and dealt with misunderstandings (7:28). She discusses her work in HR (20:19) and the origins of restorative practices (32:36). Finally, she answers the closing questions (48:28).

Make sure to subscribe, rate, review, and share!

Contact, Learn More, Support Angola!
Website: http://circlepulse.com
Social: https://twitter.com/DrGola 

Check out peacemaking circle resources from
https://www.circlepulse.com/resources.html
https://peacemaking.narf.org/ 

See all our workshops and courses at http://amplifyrj.com/learn
Future Ancestor Collective (Community Gatherings): http://tiny.cc/ARJcommunity
Rep Amplify RJ Gear at http://amplifyrj.threadless.com 

Watch our TikTok: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRAQd2VM/
You can connect with Amplify RJ:
Email list: http://tiny.cc/ARJemail
Instagram: http://instagram.com/amplify.rj
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/restorative-justice
Facebook: http://facebook.com/amplifyrj
Twitter: http://twitter.com/amplifyrj
Website: http://amplifyrj.com
Reading list: http://amplifyrj.com/reading-list

David (he/him)  
Angola Welcome to this restorative justice life. Who are you?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Hi, David. It's nice to meet you. Um, I am a healer. Among other things, as I'm a healer, and I started doing that probably in Who? I'd say2012. What time? 

David (he/him)  
Who are you? 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I am a woman. Identify, she/her. If you want to say they/them, I'm not offended by that either. But she her. 

David (he/him)  
Who are you? 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I am a student. I work with a lot of schools. But I think the best teachers are also students. 

David (he/him)  
Who are you?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
 I am a sole rebel. I like to learn as much as I can from as many people in as many cultures as I can reach. 

David (he/him)  
Who are you? 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I am a mother. And it's funny because I always say I'm a feminist. But it took having sense to become better at being a full person and seeing the other side of the human story. 

David (he/him)  
Who are you?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I am who I am. I think that's an open question. I'm evolving. 

David (he/him)  
And finally, who are you? 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I am Angola. And I think there's power in your name. And so one of the things I like to ask people, when I sit in circle with them, is the meaning of their name. That opens a beautiful door into who they are or who their family is. Sometimes people don't know. Usually they know who either what their name means or who needs them. So I am Angola. And I know that my parents named me after the country in Africa, they gained their freedom. And I think it was 1975 they getting their freedom. So they named me English America, which loosely kind of means and goes freedom. But shimmering is a movement, it's a music style. It's kind of the fight for freedom.

David (he/him)  
Beautiful, thank you so much for sharing, if you hadn't shared the meaning of your name, I was gonna follow up and ask. But it is always good to check in after you know that Who are you? So to the fullest extent of the question, or the fullest extent that you want to share here? How are you?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Great, I'm coming into this meeting feeling hopeful. I think that we have gone through something historic with this pandemic. And we're still not out of the woods yet. But I feel hopeful going into a new school year saying that our kids may be able to sit in person and even if they don't, even if they have to start online. I have no an elementary age, son, and I'm not sure if that's quite safe yet for them. They're not able to be vaccinated. But I feel like there's a lot of hope brewing that we're starting to come out. So I came in today feeling good and hopeful.

David (he/him)  
Yeah, you talked about how this pandemic has been life altering, to say the least for so many of us, how have you been able to stay afloat to the extent that you have been?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Well, my faith, I have a really strong faith and I believe that faith can carry you through anything. So my faith has kept me strong, my family, my friend connections, and I'm, I'm pretty comfortable with alone time. I'm an ambivert. So I love people. I love crowds. But I also love time for my to myself. So this wasn't uncomfortable for me. But it is different when you're forced to be inside versus when you choose to. So just learning how to reach out to people and make sure you're communicating. Even if it's just texting. You know, being online, being on the phone, it feels good to connect with people however you can but having a strong faith, no matter what is thrown at you. I believe you can make it through.

David (he/him)  
Yeah, there's, there's so much to that. Along with faith. You also talked about the connection that you have with people and community. I'm reflecting on the conversation that I behind the scenes moment had yesterday that aired probably a week before this conversation is airing where you know, the opportunities to Connect with folks have changed, right? In some ways, it's easier to connect with folks, you can be like, you know, shoot off a text or like, hey, let's jump on a FaceTime or zoom, but like, we still do miss something, when we're not connecting in person, and you know, their benefits, safety, for sure of doing things the way that we've had to over the last, you know, over a year now, but you know, all these ways of connection, are central to what restorative justice, this healing work restorative practices are all about. 

David (he/him)  
You've been doing this work for a minute now. But you've probably been doing work, even if you didn't know the word restorative justice before that. So from your perspective, how did this journey get started for you?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny, because it got started, you know, really through the lens of healing and really having a safe space for people to talk and open up without retribution without a hierarchy, feeling like we're all equal. So I started doing the specific practice of peacemaking by sitting with a group of professionals to do racial justice work and racial equity work. And it was just a safe space for everyone to sit and talk, you really just do that kid that self healing first. And this is something I tell people when they ask me about restorative practices is how do they you know, how do I get into this? And how did you start? And I would say, the most important thing is to do your own work first, right? You know, go to a circle, inquire about healing circles, or talking circles, where you can just go and deal with yourself first, before you try to help anyone else. So this was an amazing space for people who do, you know, human resource, human resources, work that really focuses on race. And it was a place where we could all talk and just open up and there was no fear retribution for what we were saying, we were able to be honest. And that's really how I got started, it was such a beautiful process, you know, it was a three day circle. We were there probably eight hours a day went really deep. But it was so beautiful. It was life changing in in that I saw how this could be used in so many different ways just in that weekend. So that's what really got me started.

David (he/him)  
Yeah. One, when I reached out to you, one of the things that stood out to me was that HR background, and I'm curious if this is filling in some of the gaps. But I'm curious if you could share a little more how you went? I guess part of is like what drew you to HR, but then how you transition from, you know, that space, which in some ways can be really rigid and unstable, like towards the space, which is much more person focused and healing focused?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Yeah, I, you know, I was drawn to human resources, because of the people know, I love working with people, I think naturally, co workers are drawn to me, and would want to talk. And so I just love working with people so much, I thought, well, human races is a great field, you have the opportunity to sit with people that you work with, and not just your coworkers, but with management, upper management ownership. And I was able to create these relationships naturally. So it's just a real natural progression for me. And then when I started doing circles, who was really just working on my own self first, and talking with people who do similar work as me, and seeing that, you know, we have so many of the same struggles, no matter where we come from in this work. It was just enlightening how much we can help each other just by creating a safe space and listening to each other's stories.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
 You know, storytelling is so important to any restorative practice, being able to really listen to someone. And active listening is one of the tools that I teach. And it's not a natural thing for most people, most people are just waiting to answer, right, they have a lot going on in their head. And you may say something and to get this great idea. They're just waiting to tell you but active listening pauses that and slows you down. And I have people have conversations where one person will talk. And then the next person will reflect what they said. And then the person who originally spoke will have an opportunity to say if that was it, or if there was more, maybe there's some things you missed maybe some things you hit right on nail. And in that way you're learning how to really deeply listen to each other without the need to respond.

David (he/him)  
I'm struck by you know, when we sit in circle, the the ways that we listen to understand listen just for the sake of listening not to respond because we're forced or asked to you know, Wait for a talking piece to come around. And you know, you know, what you were gonna say based off of one person share is going to be totally different by the time the talking piece comes all the way around to you. So like, what's the point of trying to like respond in any given moment to what other people said like that principle like applies to our everyday interactions with people, right? where sometimes we go into conversations with, you know, very clear intentions about what we want to have accomplished by the end of the conversation, maybe it's we're giving people directions, maybe we're getting directions. And in those conversations with folks, the assumptions that we're making based off of those responses, like don't lend to great listening, or reflective or active active listening practice and things get left out, right, we might be able to accomplish the task at hand. But the lack, we're not able to connect in the same way. And right, when we're in, I think there is a line between spending too much time reflecting back for people. And, you know, just moving on, because we have mutual understanding, right? Like the beginning, when we first got on the call, there wasn't necessarily a need for you to like, reflect back everything that I told you about the logistics of this podcast recording, right. But there are opportunities that we miss when we're just so task focused and not connection focused, I'm curious if there is a time in your life outside of sitting in literal circle, where that type of listening has been really impactful and helpful.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Um, you know, it's funny, because for a lot of us who started doing this work, in the greater Seattle area, one of the things we like to tell people is that this is a lifestyle, and you know, use it at home, use it in your interpersonal relationships, and see how effective it is and how you can use it in your work. So I definitely use it in my personal relationships, especially being a mother. Active listening, is priceless, as a parent. Because sometimes kids have a hard time finding their words. But if you are at their level, and you're looking at them, and you're not waiting to speak, and really letting them get their words out, their body language will tell you things, their energy will tell you things, and they feel so much better when they feel heard. So I have used it with my children. Because remembering back when I was a kid, you know, I wanted to feel heard. And I was really quiet, you know, around people, I just, I'm a listener, I like to sit and listen to people. But I appreciate people who really sit and listen to me when I'm speaking. And so I give that gift to my children, because I know that people appreciate.

David (he/him)  
Yeah, there's something that you said, when you were first talking about your experience with circle where you know, everyone is having the chance to be heard, like, you had that wonderful experience, right? Where you learned about yourself, you learned about others, you understood how this could have such great implications for lots of different aspects of life, as you just shared, right from the personal to professional, when you have that experience. What was it that prompted you to think like, you know, I can dedicate my life to this kind of healing work. And I know you had been doing healing work in other spaces before, but there was a shift for you there.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Yeah, it was really just, you know, every we came from different age groups. And some of us had similar backgrounds. But now there's some of us who have really different backgrounds and seeing how kind of our different experiences, we were able to be a mirror for each other. There's a quote, that I like from bear boy, he was a huge spiritual healer. And he said, learn who you are by observing who you're not. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
And that was really powerful in that circle, because there are people that, you know, obviously came from different backgrounds as me. But I felt that certain struggles were similar to mine. And it was rewarding to see how just giving space allowed us to connect, even though we had had some different experiences, the things that connected us were powerful enough to where I could still help him and he could help me or I could help her and she can help me. So in that moment, I felt like oh, wow, you know, there's a lot of people I can think of that would love to sit in a circle. Just different groups that have different issues and even seeing conflict happen. There was a little bit of a conflict that happened that weekend. But seeing how it played out and how we allow for that and we allow for Everyone who was there to reflect on what was happening in the moment and how that conflict quieted down so quickly. It was organically happening. While we were learning this process. It just it happened, it came up. And we handled it. restoratively, we we talked about it, we didn't run from it. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
And so many times, for me specifically, in working in school environments, you know, conflict is like, oh, let's, let's, let's separate and remove. But in this process, it's different. If there's a conflict, it may take a little break, but we're going to come right back into it. We're not scared of the conflict, we're going to face it head on, we're going to talk about it in the moment. And let it calm down, and then let you reflect, know, what were you thinking when this happened? What were you thinking? 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
And oftentimes, misunderstandings can be handled right then and there. And that's powerful. That's powerful for so many different situations. So for me, I felt like, wow, this is a really powerful healing tool, because so many people don't know how to communicate. Right. And when conflict happens, oftentimes, it's a misunderstanding. Right? We we assume negative intent, when we should we should assume the opposite. At least give people the space to speak on what they were thinking, know, what did you understand what was going on in your head? Okay, did you hear what they said? And how about you tell me what you were thinking what was going on in your head, and see how we can dismantle conflict in the moment. There's so many misunderstandings in life, and we can avoid the pain of anger and resentment by just handling right there in the moment, not letting it fester. So I just found it to be powerful.

David (he/him)  
Yeah, there's something early on about what you said about, you know, removing people removing problems, like, you know, one of the things that I've been taught in this work is that you can't actually remove someone. Right? Unless, right, removing someone from a community is putting them into one, either another community or putting them into isolation, right? They're still there. Right? The problem didn't get solved, just because the root causes of those problems didn't get solved, right, the needs didn't get addressed. Maybe the temporary needs for, quote unquote, safety, or, you know, the harm stopping in any given moment, like what was addressed. But, you know, those problems still exist in like, what are the things that we can do to heal those things, a lot of the times, there are things that communities can do to repair harm and meet needs, even without having that kind of dialogue or that kind of process. But so many times it can be solved in the ways that you were talking about needs can be met by bringing folks who have caused harm and who have been harmed together. Of course, when folks are ready to right, not wanting to bring folks into situations where they're still actively causing harm, we're still ready to be antagonistic of each other or antagonistic of the problem. But, you know, making sure that we're not removing folks, as a solution in and of itself is so key. 

David (he/him)  
You know, I'm curious how that differs from, or how you've seen that differ from your HR practices and how you've helped organizations schools. Think about all of that differently.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Yeah, you know, I have one incident that happened, that left lasting impression on me. And that was just an incident where I had to walk someone out of the office, I had to help them, you know, pack up their things. And they had been let go and, and so for safety, I helped them pack up their belongings, and I gave them a little space and time to do that, and then came back and had to walk them out of the building. And it just, it felt really demeaning for the other person. And for me, I know because I personally really liked them. And the decision to let them go wasn't mine. But it was my job to handle it. And I just felt like there could have been a better way to sit and give this person just a safe space to talk about their feelings about what was going on, and really have an opportunity to say goodbye in the way that they feel best to everyone that they have worked with, and then maybe do it privately. More privately. I mean, I did it as privately as I could, but there was a request to walk them out at that moment. And they weren't really given the dignity to finish the day. And I just feel like there has to be a better way in this because you because then you can see.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
 Luckily I haven't had to deal with Personally, but you can see how someone could be angry, right, and why people would return to a location where they worked or maybe gave years of their life to and felt like they were treated unfairly. Because in that moment, I was as loving, I was as kind and patient as I possibly could be anyway, I gave them a hug. And we talked and I let them know, they could call me anytime to talk. if they needed someone to talk to. But I still felt that lack of dignity for them. You know, they just weren't allowed to finish the day and do it privately. I mean, so much in our culture. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
When it comes to accountability, we want action, and we want it now. And we forget about the person, right? And so the whole idea of being restorative is restoring someone to community. So even if they don't work at your company anymore, they know people, right? They may be friends with people there, give them an opportunity to have some dignity of the evening. And oftentimes in the corporate world, I mean, you just have to handle business. And it's considered not personal. In fact, that's a popular saying, isn't it? This is business. It's not personal, right. But I would argue that it is person. In fact, people bring their spiritual beliefs with them to work. They bring their their values to work. They bring their personal identity to work. So to ask people to almost become robotic and separate that from their working self. I don't think it's realistic. We have to learn how to accept the whole person and deal with people in that way. So yeah, that left a lasting impression on me. And I never wanted to do something like that ever again, I knew there has to be a better way to handle this.

David (he/him)  
Yeah. What are the ways that you have thought about or reimagined that? And what are some things that you've seen work,

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I definitely would have called a circle. You know, if it was something that I did back, then I would have called the circle with the people that were involved, and had everyone speak. And then I would have told them to finish the day. And I would have given them time to go and speak to anyone that they wanted to, to say goodbye. And then I would have had them leave at the end of the day after everyone had left. Because I think there's a certain sensitivity we have to have, especially if someone is leaving under duress. Say to give them their privacy. And you can't give someone privacy. If you're like, we need you to leave in an hour. While everyone's standing around working, wondering, Oh, my gosh, you're leaving us? We're going to stop you on your way out. Oh, my gosh, you're leaving? What happened? And then that question, I don't think you should put people through that. I think everyone should be allowed privacy and dignity. And that signal sucks situation. So I would give them to the end of the day, they can wait until you know most of the other offices left. Because you can still supervise that. And allow them time to kind of grieve and say goodbye. 

David (he/him)  
Yeah. Um, is there space for? I guess, like, asking them like, what they need what they wanted? That's probably what they're gonna say is like, I need not be fired. Right? I need my job. Right. But like with that being? What is happening, right, giving them choice. Along with that privacy could be huge. Have you been able? Had you been able to try things like that? Or have you worked with folks who have been able to try termination processes in that kind of way?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Yes, I have done those. You know, after that incident, and it leaving that impression on me once I learned the sort of practices, that is something that I I absolutely facilitate for others, and I show them how to handle it better. Yes. And and the key to that question to answer what would make you feel better, and I would prefer not to be fired. That's something that you want to do in a circle. Right? That's something that I would pull the team aside and go into the conference room and schedule time and have Everyone sit in a circle and talk about the incident. Okay, so what were you thinking when this happened, and let them talk, let everyone hear it and then have someone else reflect back what they heard and say, have another person reflect back so you get different viewpoints, and then have them respond and go around the circle in that way so that they can express their desire to not be fired in that moment. So that way, when the circle is over, we've agreed This is confidential, we're not going to bring anything out of this room. And we've already laid down the guidelines for how this person will leave like yes, we're going to give them to the end of the day until everyone is mostly gone. we'll assign someone to supervise that. Give them some privacy and some space so that can mean at the end of the day and that and that always goes over better than you know, just putting someone on the spot telling You have an hour back of your stuff and walk out in front of everybody. Yeah.

David (he/him)  
This is a clarification. And I'm just looking on LinkedIn, what was the journey from innovation tech in Miami to founding circle polls? Because what I'm hearing is like, somewhere in that 11 years, you were exposed to restorative justice. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Yeah.

David (he/him)  
 And then you also moved to Seattle at some point, and started all of this.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Well, Seattle is my hometown, that's where I was born and raised. And so Miami is where I was living and working at the time. And so there's a big gap in between. When I left Miami, when I started doing restorative practices, and I got married, had kids. And then I did my healer training. So I'm, I'm a master energy healer. So and that's really, what got me interested in having a healing practice, and offering spiritual healing. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
But I wasn't sure how I wanted to do that, you know, there's, there's some red tape, there's other things you have to consider. So it's like, well, how am I going to do this? And I want to just, you know, maybe start a church? Or how do I want to go about this, and I wasn't sure what was the right way to do it for me. So then I got exposed to restorative practices. And I thought, wow, this is a great way to blend my business, which is really started out just really being consulting, and doing, you know, my human resources, consulting, and then adding in my energy work with a practice that I could kind of blend, you know, like, ancient tradition with modern business practices. And that was my idea. And starting a business, I could have worked for someone else and tried to do these practices with them. But in my experience, it's hard to change corporate culture, when you're part of it. It's much easier, coming in as an independent person with my own business and coming into a business and helping them to change their culture. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
So I chose to start my own business. And that was a big step for me. And I'm so glad that I took that step because it allows me the freedom to work with corporate groups, work at universities, work with school groups, nonprofits, and I wouldn't have been able to do that if I was still an employee. So that was like the biggest change for me, I stopped being employee and became employer. 

David (he/him)  
ahh gotcha, 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
You know, that gave me the freedom that I needed to really promote how these practices are not just a spiritual thing. I mean, there's two sides to me, right? There's the spiritual side to me. But there's also the corporate side to me. And I wanted to share how these practices can be used in business, and can be used in schools in a secular way, where we're taking the best practices, and bring them to these programs so that we've been humanizing again. Right? Our children are not robots, we are not robots, we have to learn to respect each other, communicate as human beings in these types of spaces without feeling like you've crossed the line.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
 So it's been appropriate for me to come in as a church group into a business, because not everybody's comfortable with that. So I wanted to secularize it, I wanted to take the best pieces of peacemaking and bring them to the corporate level, and bring them to our public schools and say, Look, you can take what you need from this and create this whole new practice, which is really what restorative practices have become, because they have a Foundation's deeply spiritual, peacemaking, right. But they've been secularized so that they can be used in schools and so that they can use in businesses. And so they feel they can they can be used in courts, right? They can be used for mediation, and without offending someone. How do you do that? Well, you take the religious identity out, and you just secularize it and use best practices. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
So what are the best practices, I found, number one, sitting in a circle, as equals in taking higher ground. Number two, keeping it confidential. We still use a talking piece. So that's the third piece I think it's important to use a talking piece. Now it doesn't have to be a feather. It doesn't have to be a traditional talking stick. For different groups. I use whatever is appropriate. So for some of my school groups, I'll use a mascot. Now I use a stuffed animal that's their mascot. If it's a bulldog, I use a bulldog. For things like that, if it's a corporate group, I use whatever is appropriate for their group. And we just have these basic guidelines that we bring to each group. And then we allow them to create it there themselves, create your own process for your group that is appropriate for you, we have these very basic things that we bring in, which are the best practices that will give you everything you have restorative practices, because it's about trust building, restoring relationships, and learning how to deal with conflicts.

David (he/him)  
Because we had that conversation about active listening at the beginning of this, you just shared a lot there. And I was like, oh, there's this one thing that I wanted to say earlier, but be here. Um, I did want to harkin back to Ooh, wow. Harkin. I don't think I've ever used that word before. But hearken back to, you know, the thing that you said about, you know, when we're bringing these practices into schools, like both the adults who work in buildings and students, right, they're not robots you were talking earlier about, you know, people can't really check their spiritual, physical, mental, emotional parts of themselves at the door, like we take those things with us, wherever we go. I'm someone who has struggled with this idea of sanitizing secularizing, white washing restorative justice practices, because you know, the people that I learned from, did this from, you know, indigenous perspectives, right? And there are ways that folks in the field, some people have sanitized this work to the point where the roots aren't showing through? Where do you draw those lines, in the respective contexts that you're working in?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Well, I think the first thing that anyone should do in teaching this practice is be mindful of working. And I always teach my groups that this is an indigenous practice. And, you know, when you learn it, you're given permission to share it. And when you secularize it, you're not taking the indigenous roots out, you're just making sure it's appropriate for different groups that you're working with. But it is important for everyone to know that this is an indigenous practice. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
And like I said, traditional peacemaking is, it's a beautiful, deeply spiritual way of communicating and being in community. And so there are many different traditions that are similar, and I bring them together. You know, there's the West African tradition of passing the stone. That's a really old tradition of just passing the stone talking, and kind of bonding in groups. And, of course, there's the tradition from the Yukon, the wingett, which is the way that I learned peacemaking, which is very spiritual, and sledge. Before we get started, we always open with a reading. And then we start with an introductory around everyone to say, who they are and how they're coming into the room. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
So there's different types of practices that are brought together under this umbrella term of restorative practices, right? And so it's important for what however, you learned your practice that you just leave a little space to say, Hey, this is who I learned from, and these the different traditions I'm using, we are indigenous, and I like to leave information for people who want to look it up. Because there is, oh, gosh, I probably have to look it up for you. But there's a couple of websites that I direct people to where they can go to learn more about traditional peace and learn more about talking circles and the Brazilian circles that removes those are primary means for conflict. But there are different traditions where you can just go and look online and I took a look at my website, and it'll tell you kind of the backstory of the different styles that I use. And I think that's important information to have as a resource. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
But when you go into specifically a corporate office, you know, you have to remember that it's not always appropriate to come in with regalia. And so I think we have to put it in perspective that when we are teaching this, we're not losing the roots by not bringing everything to the table. We're sharing the practice in a way that's most appropriate. So if you're with a nonprofit group, and they want to do a peacemaking circle, you can bring it all right, you can bring it all away, you can do drumming circles, you can give all of the that history. But if you're sitting with a corporate group, you know, that probably is not as appropriate. And I would just send them a resource list so they can do their, they can look up where the roots of these practices come from, and then maybe some case studies showing how effective it is. For what?

David (he/him)  
Yeah, I appreciate you like sharing the differences. I think about how, as someone who is who's still navigating this myself, right, what does that mean, when we're doing this work online. So many people who have taught me this work, were really hesitant to take this work into virtual spaces, right, because we lose so much of the ceremony, right? And we've learned over the last year and a half that like, you can still build the spaces, you can still build the connections. Even if you're not physically passing a talking piece, right? Even if you're not physically sitting shoulder to shoulder in that circle way, like the ways that we adapt to our environments, whether that is contextual with the literal people that were sitting with corporate community, family, or the the mediums that we're using, right, whether we are sitting in a conference room, or in a classroom, or somebody's living room, or on zoom, right, in our respective corners of the world, like, are impactful, but we can still make those similar, those similar bonds with similar connections, that similar way of making peace, right, whether proactively or responsibly dorm,

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
yeah, and you have to remember that there's different practices, you know, all under that umbrella. So, for peacemaking, there's a very specific way of doing that. And if you're just offering a talking circle, there may be a specific way of doing it, if you're going to do more of the Brazilian style of kind of facilitating conflict mediation, that's going to look a little bit different. So this is about coming into the room, knowing what they are going to be learning, and offering good resources for people to look up on their own time, because I like people to learn by doing. So there's the Native American rights fund, indigenous peacemaking initiative, I find that's one of the best ones. And there's a lot of information on that website. So that's narf.org. And they have lots of resources for you. And they're obviously there's a living justice press living justice press is great, and a featured circle person with them, and they offer lots of information for people who just want to read about it, learn a bit more about where it comes from the different types of restorative practices, because there are several, there's lots of books you can read. And oftentimes, people just want a little bit of backstory on what you're doing. It's nice to have a case study showing that it's effective. And it works. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
There was an article I just posted. Speaking of how effective this is for girls of color in schools, girls that traditionally have issues feeling invisible in those spaces, and how effective this is for them. So those are the things that I like to share, just so people can get the big picture. This is a shared practice. And it comes from many different sources. And there's different ways to do it. But there are best practices, definitely, even though there are a variety of sources for different restorative practices. I think everyone has best practices that we want utilized in these different spaces to make sure just that it's being taught properly, and that you are respecting whoever taught you this.

David (he/him)  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm thinking about how those different practices play out in like, just like the benefit of each right in the different contexts that you're in right because you even like, within the cultural sorry, the corporate versus not so corporate where you can bring more cultural spiritual practices and like Though ways that one group who is more open to spiritual practices like might be more open to one way of doing things and another and like the different ways that you're able to do different, I guess like tools, you're able to use practices you're able to use can be really helpful. We've talked a lot about how this applies to, you know, work ish spaces. I'm curious what this has looked like in your spiritual healing work.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Yeah, much more freedom. And definitely, when you're doing healing work much more freedom, because in schools, again, you want to have that separation, and don't want to offend anyone, you don't want to bring anything into the school, that would be offensive. Same with corporate groups, but when you're independent, and you're hosting a healing circle, then people are coming into your space, right, or space that you've deemed a safe space for them for that purpose, you know, because I go to different spaces, I like to go to parks, you know, and I'll rent different spaces that are really beautiful, like those. In the Northwest, we have lots of islands around us, and one of them's would be Island, and they have a retreat center, you can rent. And it was really beautiful. And they have a labyrinth out there, they have these conference rooms with a big drum and, you know, they they can hire a chef to make any type of food you want a difference is all really natural food or vegan food, you know, vegetarian or healthy. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
And so you kind of create an experience for groups like the retreat, and you have so much more freedom to bring in all of those different spiritual practices and invite people really to learn the deeper practice of peacemaking. I think sometimes when people hear restorative practice, they they think of maybe just a talking circle sitting in a circle with a talking piece. I mean, it's been on a couple of TV shows, you know, and I kind of laugh whenever I see and I go, yeah, that's what we, that's what I do, sort of, that's what I do sometimes, and they don't realize how spiritual it is and how peacemaking can be much different. Like I said, the first one I did was three days long. And we were there eight hours a day. And they're like, Whoa, I don't know if I could sit there and talk in a circle for eight hours. But that's not all you're doing. Right? So you're researching. You are storytelling, but you're also doing different activities and exercises with the groups to bring them closer. So it's a different experience to do a three day event versus a two hour training.

David (he/him)  
Yeah, for sure. For sure. my curiosity from there is you've built this life for yourself with within the context of circle pulse, that allows you to work with different people in totally different contexts. How do you I guess there's two ways of asking the question like, how do you balance where you're putting more energy? Or the other way of asking is like, where do you prefer to spend time?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Well, that's a good question to answer. I think it's because of the way I got into this work. I love people. And I started by working with nonprofit groups. So I was working with two different ones at the same time, and they were doing to kind of complimentary of the different things. So I started working with the central, the Center for ethical leadership, and they were hosting healing circles and peacemaking circles in community. And then I also was working with in park Seattle, which is the nonprofit anti racism coalition. And we were specifically doing racial healing circles. So those were two kind of complimentary, but different things going on at once. And then I started teaching this practice at schools. And so it's really hard to compare. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I really, I just love working with people in general, I must say, like, the youngest kids, they take to it instantly. They don't have any walls up. They're very open and honest. And they come into the practice just ready to participate. And I think as adults, you know, because we've lived life and we've gone through a lot more experiences, the most regarded, sometimes adults can be suspicious about what they're walking into. Some people are like, what is this you know, what is what is a peace circle, you know? And they want to make sure like a what kind of thing? am I walking into? What what are you really doing here, but with youth, they're very open. And they just take what's given. This is a circle. We're going to sit in a circle and we're going to pass a talking piece and I'm going to ask you some questions and you can just For as long as you want, and then you pass it on. So I find that the most fun I've had, has honestly been with my elementary age students. Yeah, they love it.

David (he/him)  
That's, I think part of it is, you know, like you were saying, like, they haven't been as corrupted. They're not as guarded, right. I was listening to someone else describe Buddhism. And the idea that they were talking about, it was like, in the beginning, you view the world, as like everyone is your friend. And as you get older, you forget.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Yeah, just to piggyback off of that, absolutely. We forget. And also, sometimes we're just hurt. Right? We go through trauma, and we see the world through the lens of our trauma. A lot of our younger kids, they don't have that yet. Some do. be surprised. Some do, and they just let it all out. which feels like an honor to be there to hold space for that. But I find adults Yeah, I mean, both life experiences, we go through trauma, and we bring that with us wherever we go. That's why I said, we're not robots. We don't we can't separate ourselves from our identity. We try. We try to be sterile in these spaces where we're told to be sterile, and it doesn't always work and spills over. So it's important to have safe spaces where you can just open it.

David (he/him)  
Absolutely. And like those spaces don't necessarily have to come after harm has occurred, right? What are the ways that we can one help people get in the practice of that? So when there is harm, we can use those spaces to address the harm, but also how can we just proactively build together? There's, there's so much in there, I realized, like I've just gotten caught up in talking to you, I realized that you said we had about an hour, are you okay to go a little bit more? To get to the questions that everybody answers here on this podcast? 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Absolutely. Let's go.

David (he/him)  
Perfect. So, um, this, we've talked around it a lot, but for you to find restorative justice.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
 Well, I define restorative justice as an alternative to punitive justice, where we work to restore person back to community. And we give both victims and the accused or the person who may have authored the harm, an opportunity to work through their conflict, and an opportunity to heal. So I think there are levels to restorative justice, depending on what type of harm was done, I definitely wouldn't be appropriate to do the same type of process for someone who's accused of getting in a bar fight, versus someone who's accused of making sexual assault. Right, we would handle those things differently. But within those levels, I think that we can offer this practice to everyone, if given the opportunity.

David (he/him)  
Thank you, as you've been doing this work, what's been Oh, shit moment? What did you learn from it?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Well, I've had a few those. Wow, well, going back to in Park, and doing racial healing circles. We had groups of allies together. And we had groups of people of color together. And then we brought those groups. And I think one of those oh wow moments was just realizing how much we learn from each other. When we're in our own spaces, that's important. There was a point in time where I thought, No, we do and so altogether, we'd always be all together. But no, it's important for women. To sit with women, it's important for men to sit with men, it's important for trans youth to be able to speak with themselves. There are certain lessons you're going to learn from people who go through your same experiences that you can never learn from anyone else. And it's important to get through that first before you get in a mixed group. It's important for allies to sit with other allies and really check each other in a way that probably would be offensive if I did it. Right. But it's not as offensive if someone can mirror you and speak on an experience that you too may have that you know, is really similar and you handle the different so that was an oh well moment for me is that I need to know Not just be focused on creating mixed rooms experience with people who are from all different backgrounds, but I need to be sensitive to have people who have similar backgrounds in the same room, you can learn so much from each other need that mirror?

David (he/him)  
Yeah, yeah, for sure, can be healing, and like so educational and can prevent a lot of harm, especially when we're talking about folks from groups who are privileged, going through their learning process in front of people who are marginalized and oppressed by those intersections of those identities.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Absolutely. Because the first time you sit in a circle, you really want to make it as safe of a space as possible. And if someone is going to get, you know, if you have a mixed group right away, you may create some triggers some trigger bonds, right, and you don't want to put someone through that in their first experience. So if I have a mixed group, and I can't separate my group, you know, I will keep it as I say that there's levels. So I like to keep I first have the first level, know the first round. And I decide based on what happens how deep, I'm going to take my group, because I don't want to take a group really deep into a conversation and then have to leave for the day and leave everyone open. So if I have a mixed group, and I can't, you know, put them in smaller groups than I will keep it on the first level for the first circle for the whole circle. Because I don't want to traumatize someone who's coming really wounded. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Right, you have to be mindful of that. And you have to be able to feel the energy of the room. And that takes practice, right, you have to listen to the responses that you're given pay attention, that of the topics that aren't spoken about that, you know, will usually come up and go, Oh, okay, this group is avoiding this certain topic. Maybe this isn't the right time to bring it up, we're going to wait into day two, and then we're going to bring that up and then go a little deeper. And then we're going to bring you back up out of that. And on day three, we're going to try to come to some resolutions about those things, right. So that takes practice. And that's why I say there are best practices, this is as much an art form. Right as anything else, I, I appreciate the art of peace. You have to be sensitive to the people that you are, and be able to listen deeply and respond to what they're getting.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
So I love putting like minded people together. I love people who have a shared experience together first, because they can take each other deeper than a mixed group might may feel a little more comfortable. You have people who have, let's say, people who have an issue with LGBTQ plus groups, in a group with trans kids who want to talk to this group and learn, you don't want to do that right away. Right, because someone might say something that just triggers someone and then you'll end up in a situation when no one feels safe. But if I have two separate groups, and I let one group say all the offensive things they want to to each other in their own group, they will check each other. And I have my other group in a group and they will do the same thing, then bring them together. Once that triggering thing happens, this amazing thing comes out of circle, you will have advocates that naturally stand up and take that leadership role when it comes around to the return. Because they've already had these conversations in their separate groups. It's almost preparing them for the Battle of you need to now face your trauma. Right. So this is a healing space. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
And after that first, but then I want to take you into the conference. We don't do that first. But we are going to get there. And I want to get you there in a way where you feel safe in a way where you feel like you have the tools to sit with it and deal with it. We're not here to avoid conflict. And I want to make that clear. when I work with, especially in schools, I get this pushback, right that says, Our restorative practices really good though, do they make people accountable? Or are they just a slap on the wrist? And I want this to be understood that? No, this is real work. We hold people accountable. And we take you into a conflict and we make sure that you know how to work through the conflict, not avoid it, not run from it. We're not going to separate you and make everyone go their separate ways and they were talking about we're actually taking you into conflict in a safe world. So we're going to let you build some trust first. I'm going to give you some relationship and some communication skills. And then we're going to take in the conflict so You can actually get through.

David (he/him)  
Yeah. Yeah. This stuff isn't for the faint of heart. Oh, yeah, you get to sit in circle with four people living or dead? Who are they? And what's the question, you asked the circle.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I would sit in a circle with the ones on my group. Really, um, I've had so many good groups. But if I could choose for people living or dead, I, you know, I'm going to do this in the context of a group with my students. And I love my artsy students. They're very emotional. I like to share. So I would, I would have 2Pac and I would have Biggie, and I would have nipsey. And I would have, I would have Bob Marley. And the reason why I would have that group is because it seems like most of them come from Hip Hop, and then one does not, but they're all rebels in their own way. And I think they have important lessons that they could teach a group of students specifically, I think that Tupac and Biggie were portrayed in the media as being these enemies, right. But the truth is, they were once friends. And outside sources, destroyed their friendship. And both of their lives were lost, I think, in part due to misunderstandings. And a lot of the fights that happen, that I bear witness to in schools are due to misunderstandings and rumors, and other people who are outside coming in. So that would be valuable. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I would invite nipsey in because he's one of those personalities that are larger than life, he was a community warrior. And he looked beyond his circumstances into the big picture. And I think that's what are you need to learn to become effective adults. And I think that he would have a great perspective on the outside influences that affected Biggie and affected 2Pac and that friendship. And I think really the, the ark that we missed out on, if they were allowed to deal with their relationship between them. We didn't have to deal with it in the media. And then Bob Marley is just like, one of the original rebels. He was out. A lot of people aren't aware that the dreads in Jamaica weren't initially well liked. They were talked about, it was not really a beautiful, proud thing initially. So he was a rebel. And he lived the way he wanted to live. And he spread his message all throughout the world. And so I think he has a perspective on being a rebel in a peaceful way that he could share with kids you can share with being he could share with nipsey, then share with the students.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
And it would be unique, and it would be beautiful, and unforgettable. And it was probably not the people that you're used to hearing. But I was trying to think of what group would I have this sit with? And I think our youth, you know, that's our future. I love sitting with you. And I think that that group can have a powerful conversation. 

David (he/him)  
What's the question you would ask them to kick it off? 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Hmm. To kick it off, I would say, what is it that you feel? Because they've all passed on? So assuming I can invite them to come back from the other side? I would say what is the one thing about life that taught me the most? What was your most powerful lesson?

David (he/him)  
You haven't listened to this podcast. But if you had you know that now I flip that question back to the guest. So what has been the lesson that's been most impactful for you?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Oh, wow, in my life, well, I still have a lot more living to do. But I would say make no assumptions. Whenever I'm disappointed or crash, I guess it's a two part answer. Make no assumptions and listen to your instincts. Because I, I find that I get in trouble when I make assumptions. And I don't listen to my instincts. But whenever I listen and I Keep an open mind. It takes me further than I could have ever imagined. And that comes up time and time again. And I've gotten better at it. I've gotten so good at that I feel comfortable teaching it. But it's been a journey.

David (he/him)  
Yeah, absolutely. This might, you might have already answered this by talking about pac and Biggie, which, you know, I was just talking to my, with my wife this last weekend, like realizing that, like, I am way older than either of them lives to be, right. I mean, and I'm 30 right. And so way older, you know, we're talking about five, six years, but thinking about like, what I know now versus what I knew when I was 25 or 24 years old. You know, what could they have done? I think you can still, you can, you can take that to so many people, right? Like Malcolm and Martin also died when they were 39. Right? You know, and I'm not yet 39. But they could easily be alive right now. Right? That was a detour. I wasn't set, you might have just answered this question by talking about, you know, Biggie and Pac, being able to work this out. But what is one place or situation, either fictional historical, or in your life where you wish people really knew this work? We talked about it in schools all the time, the criminal legal system, but like, what is a space or situation where you wish people really knew this?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I, I come up with this all the time. I'm like, Oh, yeah, wish you guys had certain practices? Or do you have any sort of practices here? That's how I really end up talking about a lot. I find that people just naturally in conversation, they, they tell me things or inform me about what's going on. And I say, Hey, I do that, or I know something that might help with that. It's actually why I thought of Pac and Biggie and Mitzi talking to you and Bob Marley, right? Because, you know, when we're asked these type of questions, like, who would you talk to someone living or dead in history, anybody? You know, sometimes we go grandiose. And we think about people who've done these books, or discoveries, or Nobel Peace prizes, and things like that. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
But I want to talk to people who will live real lives. And in pop culture, they just become a part of our everyday life, right, especially musicians. I mean, they get us through hard times, they get us through good times we celebrate with them, we mourn with them, music is so powerful, I find that that can become a part of every part of your life. Right? We play music on our weddings, we play music, at funerals, we play music, our graduations, we play music at baby showers, it's so powerful. I don't even know if you realize how much we invite these musicians into our life. And this music. It really is the soundtrack of our lives. So I when I was thinking about who to talk to, and what situations would come out of this conversation, I mean, that's one of them, where it's just like, you think of any situation, there's probably music that came in at some point or another leg when my like, when my brother passed, one of the things that is a constant memory for me is one of the songs I heard the day of his memorial. And I heard the same song The day of his funeral. And sometimes when I'm thinking about him, I'll get in my car and the song is playing. And it's such a deep memory for me. It's it's, it's hard to explain how special it is. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
So when we speak to musicians, and we talk to them about their lives, and they share the ugly side of their lives, and it's not just all glitter and gold, that's extremely valuable. And so that you can humanize them again, and realize that wow, if, if these musicians can use that art form to impact you so deeply, what can I do? Right, just in any situation.

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
 I, you know, there's been times where I've been at the grocery store. And know someone is using a bunch of coupons and trying to pay and people are getting upset and someone says something nasty, and I'm like, wow, you know, I just wish we could have community circles for people for free, need to come and unload their stuff. Because every day you can pick out someone who's carrying a garbage truck full of stress and just ready to let it out and somebody you know what I mean? I just wish that there were more spaces for people to go to for free, where they could just kind of be in community a little bit more. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I love the internet. I love my phone. You know, I like Facebook. All right. I think that it's actually sometimes doing more harm than good. Because we're losing that physical in person connection. And that is the thing I love most about civil work. And was the most hard for me this past year and a half was, you know, a lot of my families that I work with may not have access to it and, and people forget about that they think everybody has a smartphone, but they don't. Some people have flip phones, and they share. And so I lost contact with someone that I work with. And I was hard because I miss them missing them and Miss talking to them. I miss sharing their stories, and it's not the same, I really have to have spaces where people can come together. So just in everyday life situations, I think, wow, I wish I could sit you down with your family and talk with you. You would love the circle process, you would think it was so weird coming in the room and you would leave loving. I think that that's something that we forget that everybody's getting through life in their own way. And people walk around with stress. And when we see weird things happening community, it's probably just whatever they're going through is coming out on that person.

David (he/him)  
Yeah, when you first started talking about the musicians, I was like, oh, man, she's going to talk about like, bringing daBaby into a circle back with restoring into community and like, as trivial and as much as like we make fun of like that the cancel culture elements of that in like, the things that he said, like, are very harmful. And you know, the way that he's dealt with that has not been restorative at all right? Like, seriously thinking about like, what would it take to invite someone into a process like that similarly, like folks at the grocery store, right, somebody just talked about that on another episode, right? Where they had been followed around, like, a followed around a grocery store being profiled right? Like, what would it have been like to be able to have a restorative conversation or a circle with with those folks like, this question is meant to be like, in some ways, light hearted in imaginary, but like this real, this work really can be a part of every single part of our lives. You might have shared it with the greatest piece of advice, or like greatest lesson you've learned. But is there a mantra or affirmation that you want to leave everyone here listening with?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
Well, that quote I told you about, learn who you are, observing who you're not. I think if you really meditate on that, it's powerful. But also, look for mentors in your life, who will marry you and can teach you from a similar experience. You might take their advice a little quicker than someone that you feel like doesn't understand you. So find somebody who understands you and can marry you and hold you accountable. That's important. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
We all need someone in our life that holds us accountable. And especially in those times where we just can't see our own missteps. It's important to have someone there who will lovingly nudge you. Not everybody has that. Right? We assume everyone has a parent, or uncle. Who does that for them, but some people don't. And friends can become family. 

David (he/him)  
Yeah, absolutely. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
And really to piggyback also on what you were saying about the baby, I, I am anti canceled culture, I really don't like it at all. It is the opposite of restorative culture. And I think it's time that we start letting that go. I understand people want accountability, because that's what cancel culture is about. Right? It's about accountability. And I think it started from a place of feeling like if you're not going to hold someone else accountable we are. And then other people joined in, and then it it almost became like, that gang mentality. Like, yeah, we're all gonna gang up on you. We're gonna cancel you. There's no one else. Well, no one is taking care of this for us. So we're going to take care of for you. And I think that that's a valid place. 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
There's a lot of people who are marginalized in this community and don't feel like they're protected. And so groups came together to say, well, we're going to protect you. We're going to get on the internet, and we're going to cancel this person. But now it's at the level of just extreme bullying. We're not allowed to make mistakes. We have to rethink that. Because if he's not allowed to mistake, neither are you. If he can't say something wrong, neither can you. He can't do something wrong. Neither can you and nobody is perfect. So we need to rethink that and I do think dababy would be a great person to say In a circle in public, you know, maybe, you know for a program for an hour, he's already had some people stand up for him and say, Hey, let him let them learn something. I was surprised Miley Cyrus kinda was like, Hey, I think he can learn this is a great opportunity for a conversation. And she's right it is. You don't want to take someone who's ignorant, and just say, damn, you're ignorant leave, because they'll never learn. You want to take someone who's ignorant, cinnamon, a group of people who know and teach him something? He's apologized several times? I'm not sure they're good. Apologies. Right. It's almost like he's a little tone deaf. He, I just don't think he gets it. But do we want to give him the opportunity to get it? Because there may be fans of his who are just like him. And by canceling him, you're canceling them. And then you're going to have a problem. You're going to have a group of people who don't care, who don't want to learn, and who don't care what you have to say, because they feel like you're just going to cancel them anyway. That may be a bigger problem in the long run. Right? It's a short term solution to cancel somebody.

David (he/him)  
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we're talking about dababy and comments you made right. People who stormed the Capitol. Right. That's a whole nother thing that we don't need to go into right now. But you know, those those lessons and principles apply two more questions to get you out of here. Who's one person I should have on this podcast? And you have to help me get them on? Obviously dababy. Right? We've covered that. But

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
um, hmm. Somebody to have on the podcast? Well, I, there's a woman named Nikita Oliver. She ran for Seattle mayor, and now she's running for Seattle Council. I think that she would be great on this program. Um, she's an attorney. And I believe she still works at a nonprofit called creative justice. But she knows quite a bit about restorative practices. But also she's just a community activist. And I think she would be great. 

David (he/him)  
noted, you got the hook up, 

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
I have the hook up, send me an invite, I'll pass over the way give me give you the good marketing skill. And I think I think she'll be

David (he/him)  
beautiful. And finally, oh, where? And how can people support you your work and the ways that you want to be supported,

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
you can look me up, www dot circle, pulse, calm. And I'm on LinkedIn, and all of those things. But yeah, just come to my website, shoot me a message, I will get back to you. I'd love to come out and do a circle, you know, or participate in one that you're doing. I love to learn as much as I love to teach.

David (he/him)  
Beautiful, well, definitely make sure that those links are in the show notes. Thank you so much. It was wonderful to get to know you over the course of this conversation. Thank you for all the wisdom, your experiences, and the time that you shared with us anything else you want to leave the people with?

Angola Dixon (she/her)  
No, I just had a great time talking today. You know, and if if we want to do a hip hop circle, let's do it. Bring some drums and talk to some people about you know, kind of the culture in hip hop. I would love to have a circle with dababy. I would love to have Miley Cyrus there because she there's some other things that went on with her that we could talk about too. So I think it'll be fun.

David (he/him)  
Well, it's out in the universe. Let's make it happen. Thank you, everybody so much for spending time with us listening to this conversation. We'll be back with another great one next week. Until then, take care

Transcribed by https://otter.ai