This Restorative Justice Life

40. Restorative Power through Vulnerability w/ Carlos J. Malave

June 24, 2021 David Ryan Castro-Harris Season 1 Episode 40
This Restorative Justice Life
40. Restorative Power through Vulnerability w/ Carlos J. Malave
Chapters
This Restorative Justice Life
40. Restorative Power through Vulnerability w/ Carlos J. Malave
Jun 24, 2021 Season 1 Episode 40
David Ryan Castro-Harris

Carlos J. Malave, the author of Translating Your Success, has developed the Restorative Power Program after years of being an educator in the classroom (Inwood Academy for Leadership, YES Prep & KIPP Houston High School) and a mentor for troubled youths. As a child, Carlos was a success at sports but lagged behind his siblings in academics. After reflecting on his circumstances, Carlos realized that he could succeed in school by applying the same principles that made him a good athlete to being a good student. He translated his success from one area of his life to another and now he is here to help all of the kids who may find themselves in the same situation.

Trigger warning: mention of addiction and suicide at (13:36) to (21:57).

You will meet Carlos (0:55) and embark on a conversation about finding who you are when teaching (8:19). Carlos explores restorative justice in tragedy and setting boundaries (15:38). He opens the conversation about restorative justice (32:54) and shares a mess up moment (40:27). He discusses which relationships to maintain (47:00), colorism in restorative justice (51:12), and redefining discipline (57:24). Finally he talks about vulnerability in men (1:12:37).

Make sure to subscribe, rate, review, and share!

Contact, Learn More, Support Carlos:
Website: https://cjmotivation.com/ 
Check out his book, Translating Your Success!

Watch clips of the podcast: http://youtube.com/c/amplifyrj
See all our workshops and courses at http://amplifyrj.com/learn
Future Ancestor Collective (Community Gatherings): http://tiny.cc/ARJcommunity
Rep Amplify RJ Gear at http://amplifyrj.threadless.com 

You can connect with Amplify RJ:
Email list: http://tiny.cc/ARJemail
Instagram: http://instagram.com/amplify.rj
Facebook: http://facebook.com/amplifyrj
Twitter: http://twitter.com/amplifyrj
Website: http://amplifyrj.com
Reading list: http://amplifyrj.com/reading-list

Show Notes Transcript

Carlos J. Malave, the author of Translating Your Success, has developed the Restorative Power Program after years of being an educator in the classroom (Inwood Academy for Leadership, YES Prep & KIPP Houston High School) and a mentor for troubled youths. As a child, Carlos was a success at sports but lagged behind his siblings in academics. After reflecting on his circumstances, Carlos realized that he could succeed in school by applying the same principles that made him a good athlete to being a good student. He translated his success from one area of his life to another and now he is here to help all of the kids who may find themselves in the same situation.

Trigger warning: mention of addiction and suicide at (13:36) to (21:57).

You will meet Carlos (0:55) and embark on a conversation about finding who you are when teaching (8:19). Carlos explores restorative justice in tragedy and setting boundaries (15:38). He opens the conversation about restorative justice (32:54) and shares a mess up moment (40:27). He discusses which relationships to maintain (47:00), colorism in restorative justice (51:12), and redefining discipline (57:24). Finally he talks about vulnerability in men (1:12:37).

Make sure to subscribe, rate, review, and share!

Contact, Learn More, Support Carlos:
Website: https://cjmotivation.com/ 
Check out his book, Translating Your Success!

Watch clips of the podcast: http://youtube.com/c/amplifyrj
See all our workshops and courses at http://amplifyrj.com/learn
Future Ancestor Collective (Community Gatherings): http://tiny.cc/ARJcommunity
Rep Amplify RJ Gear at http://amplifyrj.threadless.com 

You can connect with Amplify RJ:
Email list: http://tiny.cc/ARJemail
Instagram: http://instagram.com/amplify.rj
Facebook: http://facebook.com/amplifyrj
Twitter: http://twitter.com/amplifyrj
Website: http://amplifyrj.com
Reading list: http://amplifyrj.com/reading-list

David (he/him):

Welcome to this restorative justice life. Carlos, who are you?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I am a restorative justice coordinator and teacher.

David (he/him):

Who are you?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I am a father, husband, and son.

David (he/him):

Who are you?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I am a author and a curriculum developer?

David (he/him):

Who are you?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I am someone that cares deeply about the work of restoring ourselves?

David (he/him):

Who are you?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I am someone that is in the work of restorative justice, not just because I found out about it in the book or a conference, it actually, there's a deeper meaning with it. And you're going to learn about it today with my family and how it ties into my life.

David (he/him):

Who are you?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I am someone that is open, and always willing to have those deep conversations and go there with people.

David (he/him):

And finally, who are you?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I am someone that is ready to, you know, help people in any which way that I can, and making myself available to do so.

David (he/him):

Well, thank you so much for sharing all of who you are. We're going to get into a lot of that in a moment. But it's always good to check in. So to the fullest extent that you want to answer the question, how are you?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I'm doing well. Um, it was a crazy year in education, business wise, and as a teacher, and it's finally came to an end. So I'm more relieved, now ready to reset and get a little bit of a break before starting up again, for the next school year?

David (he/him):

Yeah, what does rest in that break look like for you

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Vacation and traveling, especially after the pandemic. You know, being able to just really get away from everything and allow myself to be present and disconnect from everything. And be with my my daughter and my wife?

David (he/him):

Yeah, I definitely feel that. And it's not something that I'm getting to practice. Not until I've scheduled something for mid July, right? Yeah. But the the need to be away from from the grind is so real. I guess like in the midst of that, how did you stay centered, grounded to the extent that you were able to do through the school year?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I think man, having those conversations, those those tough conversations, being honest with myself, and in building that awareness, I think we get so lost and everything that is consuming us that we don't take a second to breathe and actually see how we're really feeling and how, as you asked it to begin and how were you, you know, and really ask ourselves that on a daily basis. And, you know, being able to take time throughout the day to just stop and pause and work on my breathing. And have those conversations with those people that are important to me, and be realistic about what's going on with me.

David (he/him):

Yeah, I'm thinking a lot about how, you know, the first relationship that we have is the relationship with ourselves. And I'm not always someone who practices what I quote unquote, preach, right? Especially when it comes to taking care of self. It's not enough to just check in, right? It's about being responsive to those check ins. So when I'm saying like, Oh, you know what, like, I'm really tired this morning, because I stayed up till four last night working on, you know, XYZ thing for this summer. It's like, alright, so David, what are you going to do about that? And the answer to that this morning was like, drink some tea and like, jump on this podcast recording, but like, I've got to, like accountable public accountability, right. I've got to carve out time today to to just be and and recoup from what was an 18 hour workday yesterday, which, you know...

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

it's crazy.

David (he/him):

Yeah, for sure.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I think is important. I'm sorry to cut you off. I think it's important that you brought that up because I think aligning everything to your life. To my life in particular has helped me so like the stuff that I teach within schools, my business Even the person I'm married to is all about addressing those things. You know, I mean, and, and having those conversations. So I think, I think with time is all about aligning your lifestyle to your work, which will always remind you like, I'm always I'm teaching the practices of, you know, how to be self aware how to have those conflict resolution conversations and how to address everything that you're going through to get to the root. When I'm speaking at schools, when I'm working within the school that I'm in daily, when I'm, you know, talking with my wife, or my child, that's always present. So I think, for me, and for everybody, it's all about finding a way to align what you do with your lifestyle to always keep that accountability with with yourself. Yeah,

David (he/him):

I mean, you talked about in your Who are you responses that, you know, restorative justice for you is not about the job of being a restorative justice coordinator at a school, it's something that is aligned to who you are in your family, right in those relationships. I'm curious how this work got started for you. And even before you new the word restorative justice, yeah,

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

yeah. Um, so as I noted earlier, I've been in education for 10 plus years, teaching all different subjects, and 2015. I'm originally from New York, and I got an opportunity to teach this new course called eighth grade seminar, where you're getting kids high school ready. And it was in Texas, I applied, and it seemed like a really cool position to do, I've never done that particular position before. And the school never done it before. So I had a lot of opportunity to create. So when I got there, you know, I'm teaching kids life skills and trying to connect it to, you know, things that I'm doing along with doing that I was speaking around the world and building my business, as a speaker, motivational speaker, and find out and trying to find my niche, right, because as a speaker, you're always trying to find what is it that you can connect with people with? Where's that? You know, everybody goes through this as a speaker, like, you're you, you go out there, you test the waters, and then it gets to a point where you're like, Okay, who are you? Like, what do you how are you going to help? You know, I mean, not sound like everybody else, right? So, around that time, it was like, kind of a unique situation, because I've really got an opportunity to answer those questions for myself, while I'm teaching these kids in eighth grade isn't the easiest bunch. Right? So going in teaching them life skills, like how to present yourself in a conversation with an interview, or how to present yourself when something difficult comes up, how to address it. So I'm doing all these things, not knowing what restorative practices or restorative justice is. And then my dean of culture on campus at YES Prep in Texas, that year, he had me working with his kids that were getting in trouble in school and having difficulty in school. So I would like talk to them and and, and work with them. And then we, he told me, Hey, do do you? Have you ever heard of restorative justice? I was like, no, what is that? He told me about it about getting to the root cause of things. And a different way of looking at discipline is a lot of what you talk about similar. Why don't you do this conference. So I did the conference. And then ironically, while I did the conference, it went amazing. And a KIPP school was there. Think about like 50 KIPP students, and then a couple admin, where they all ran back to the principal that Monday, it was on a Saturday that Monday, and then I got a call that Tuesday telling me like, Hey, I heard amazing things about you, we would like to hire you. Right? as a as a seminar teacher on our campus at this KIPP High School. And I you know, already had a nice position at my school. So I decided to stay and then work collab with the high school and do speaking engagements implement my book, on translating your success into their curriculum as a freshman seminar on their campus. And it went really well. And I was able to build relationships, because the unique thing with me when I speak, I don't like going on a particular time. And then speaking and leaving, what I like to do is fully engage into the community and see what is

involved. So I'm there at 7:

45 when the doors open, I'm greeting kids, I'm sitting in classrooms, I have lunch with kids, and then I speak, and then I stay after and build that rapport. Because I always felt like you know, I mean, say you write this amazing speech, and then you go to the environment, and it's not for them. So what are you going to do? So like, I like to feel that out. So I did that several times about the next year with that KIPP school while I was Working at this yes prep. And then the next year after that he offered me a restorative justice coordinator position on that campus at KIPP Houston High School. And that's where everything blossomed where I, I was responsible for dealing with conflict cameras and running circles and build a relationship with staff and students alike. But I had this one course, that they want me to teach with a council of students, juniors and seniors. So the unique thing was like, they were like, Hey, why don't you try them, train them to create something. So what I did was I trained them in conflict resolution skills, I gave them circulating skills we did we read a book, and they practices of radical candor, written by Kim Scott, where you learn how to be compassionate and direct with leadership. And it got so good that we started having the kids deal with situations, I'll be like, Abraham, there's a kid having a breakdown and Miss Timothy's class, can you go up there and see what's going on, run a circle and all that. So they became the first line of defense, I use my network speaking with their presentations, neighboring schools, and then we were able to get a feature on ABC News, which was phenomenal. And it went amazing. And then, you know, I'm finding my footing, I'm loving the work. And then on January 10 2019, my father committed suicide. And it came to a whole different level, because my dad was a product of the school to prison pipeline, my dad went to Rikers Island, one of the worst prisons in New York, when I was a freshman in college, right. So like, he was a product of not being able to resolve conflict, not having the skills to, to articulate yourself and express yourself and find the power of vulnerability. So I had to, it was very traumatic. I had to go to therapy myself. And then I had to ask myself again, like, Who am I, right? What am I about? I'm doing this work, I'm preaching to the students to do something. Am I going to run away from it? Well, I'm going to actually take the things that I built with these kids and actually use it to save my life. And that's what I did. And I went back finished up the year, things were changing. And, you know, my wife said, Take the year and build your business. So I took what I built with that class, I copy wrote the current curriculum, lesson plans, assessments, aligned it to stay standards, and made it measurable. And then I started working with schools across the country to implement the restorative power curriculum. And that's what I'm doing now along with, I got hired as a restorative power teacher, and it's never been done before at elementary, and I'm teaching kindergarten to sixth graders about what is toxic behavior, how to address that, how to build proper relationships. So that's what I'm currently doing now. And the work of restorative justice, restorative practices.

David (he/him):

Yeah. Oh, man. So one, thank you for sharing all that, especially about your experience within your family of the loss of your dad. I'm very sorry about that. And I think full stop. There are things that I want to go back to you about restorative justice. But yeah, because you brought that up, if you want to, I'm curious, you know, what was it like, using restorative ways of being to navigate that situation?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Yeah, and that's, that's a part of my, my work my consultant company and my curriculum. Our restorative power, as a lifestyle is not something you do within the confines of six to eight hours a day, right? It has to fully be implemented. And as a, you know, a friend, a son, a student, a partner, and honestly, that's what I did, like I started you know, it's made me a better father, a better husband, a better brother to my siblings, a better friend all around and I just started really, specifically trying to be more present. Right. And, and really allowing myself to go there in conversations and be genuine with people and not be afraid of rejection or, you know, not be afraid of all you know, they know too much, you know, and that's what my dad... I kept going in my head. I had a lot of see my dad struggled with drugs and alcohol. He was an amazing father, but he was like a functional alcoholic. He would, he would disappear for like a weekend. And then show up on Monday morning at 4am at work as a construction worker for 30 plus years. So he was like a functional one. So which, you know, gave them the excuse, right? Like he can still function and do what he had to do. But the main thing with my father, he, he struggled with being himself and acting like he was okay with things that he wasn't okay with, right? And he built this exterior of like, you know, I'm okay. Or I'm tough, right. And if you see my father, my dad was into bodybuilding. He was fit, he was good looking. He He dressed well, so when he passed, everybody was in shock. But my father, you know, I had... growing up, ours felt weird, because my dad, he would talk to me about things that I don't think he should have been talking to me from a very young age, from the from the age of nine, he was coming to me about relationship advice with my mom, he was telling me things about what he was going through, I had those tough conversations with him. And I allowed myself to go there with him. And I wrote it in my book, the first chapter of my book, I wrote about how I found out addiction was real. By finding him in a tub, you know, blacked out, trying to wake himself up fully clothed. And I grew up angry, like in advice for him, like saying, why don't you just stop drinking? And everything changed when I allowed myself to ask different questions? Why do you drink? What causes you to go there? And then I had those conversations on like, oh, he had abuse, he, he didn't have role models. He felt like he couldn't be himself. So when he used the substance, he can actually free himself. Oh, okay. So if I just allow myself to go there, I wouldn't need a substance to get me there. So that became my mentality growing up. And then when my whole my father situation happened, to tie it all together to answer your question, those memories kept coming back. I was like, you know, my father, when my father struggled with, and what allowed him what didn't allow him to live and me being present about what am I going to do to not repeat that, and to, and it all aligned to the restorative practices, having those when someone does something in the moment that's uncomfortable, and it can be a close friend, or it could be a relative checking them and saying, Hey, I'm not cool with that. Don't say that. That's not cool. Right? And I learned it from my wife, as well, because it's like, she says it all the time. It's better to be uncomfortable for five minutes than five months, right? People are so afraid of making people uncomfortable in a in a couple moments, that they allow themselves to be uncomfortable for months and years after, right? I learned this specifically when I was getting to know my wife as friends. We were friends. Right? And we were joking, laughing. Somewhere we were we were joking, laughing. And I said, I curse. Right? I was like, jokingly or whatever. And in that moment, she stopped and in her tracks like, don't curse around me, I don't want you to feel comfortable cursing when you're good. And then when we're bad, you're going to feel like you're allowed to do that we're not going to be that type of friendship, or relationship. It's not going like that. And then she stopped and then continue the conversation. like nothing happened. I was like, *gasp* Iike she jabbed me in the throat. And then for me, I wanted to continue being in their life. So I haven't cursed since. And that's what I remember, when dealing with people, right? You're going to make them uncomfortable. But at the beginning stages, if you let it be known, what is not okay with you? What is okay with you? Right, then if they want to stay, it'll pay attention to that. And I'm proof of that, because I haven't cursed like that in front of my wife for 10 years, right? Because of that moment. And we have to allow ourselves to do that. And if my father was able to do that, felt like it was okay for that and for him to be vulnerable, and not being seen as weak when he's vulnerable, then he probably would have had the skills to still be alive. So that's how I was able to get through it. Those are the thoughts that went through my mind when I was building my curriculum when I was trying to survive through this whole tragic event in my life.

David (he/him):

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you for modeling that vulnerability here. Now, I think I, I will blame or I will assign blame to like, my socialization as as a man in you know, the culture that we grew up in is like, that's something that I struggle with as well. And like, when I share like, I do it in pretty calculated ways, right? And like, you know, here on a podcast, right, like, you're not sharing things that you haven't shared and work through before and I don't think like this is necessarily the space to like, Work out all of those feelings. But as I'm thinking about what it looks like to live this way, I think about all the ways that I hold myself back from saying, from articulating just needs and desires in a given moment with with my partner, right? In the context of friendships, maybe not so much. But like with family, and even like in business relationships, like, you know, there are lots of ways to define restorative justice from, you know, indigenous ways of being living values of interconnection to, you know, people who are most impacted by the harm, like coming together to figure out how to meet the needs. Think another way that one of my mentors, Cheryl, who's, you know, the first episode of this podcast, talks about, you know, oftentimes it comes down to like, the questions that we ask ourselves, like the check in, like, how are you? Right? And what do you need, right? And like being responsive to those needs? And when you don't articulate those needs to people, they can't meet them.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Exactly

David (he/him):

Right? When you? Yeah, and like that build resentment from you, because they're not meeting your need. But like, nobody is a mind reader. And, you know, like, there, there's so much to go on. Thank you so much. When you were originally introduced to like the term

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Um, I think that that the term that kept on resonating with me and my work, really caught my interest was getting to the root, getting to the root of restorative justice at that conference, right? Like, what was it about it that like, like, Oh, yeah, this is it for you. everything. And, you know, I mean, aligning that to my lifestyle and wanting to be a part of that. Like, I really wanted to understand why people do what they do, why do they feel the way they feel? And then while doing that, you know, figuring out why I do what I do, wow, why do I feel the way that I feel, and and fully engaging in that work is what allowed me to do what I've been able to do over the last couple of years and just stay true to that, you know, I want to get to the root cause of everything, that I go through everything that I feel, and that will allow me to build relationships, and be present and self aware of everything that goes on with me. And around me.

David (he/him):

Yeah, yeah. And I think when you're doing that, it's just like about that alignment that you were talking about. And it doesn't mean that that's always comfortable. That's always easy. I'm curious, in the course of being a restorative justice coordinator in schools, specifically, what were moments where you had to check yourself into alignment when other people who might not have understood the fullness of what restorative justice was? Yeah,

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

yeah, that that happens all the time. I think schools are set up to be punitive, where, you know, if somebody does something, they get a discipline, they get a consequence. And you know, we can go into statistics, I know your shows about restorative justice in the work. That doesn't work, right? That whole idea of suspension and kicking kids out and making them feel like what they did was so bad, and not having those conversations does not work. So, for me is constantly being true to it all around holistically. I think in schools, I've been working from schools in New York, all the way to Texas, and consulted schools, all over the country. The teachers needed just as bad as the students. And that's the thing. Teachers as a whole, I grew up in it. I've been teaching for over 10 years. Teachers are just students that were able to had the support, and just naturally knew how to fall in line and go through the process of moving up in schools, right. Like now when you play the game, basically. And when you're dealing with students that don't fit the mold, it's confusing. It seems like it's alarming. It's like what do I do? And and most of the, and if you look at most of the successful people in the world, they were extroverts. They were like, they were different. They were thought outside the box, right. So I think most teachers, right, and some have done the work and in their lives and was and were able to get in a better place. But most teachers especially coming out of college and being thrown into the world of education, don't know who they are and haven't address the stuff in their life. And then they're walking into these spaces expecting students to do it when they don't do it with their own peers. If you're not walking that walk in your world with your peers, your relatives, your friends. And then you walk into this space of students trying to, you know, I mean with everything they're going through, and then you're trying to present your way itself in this way they can smell fake from a mile away. That's the first thing you will learn as a teacher, students will smell fake from a mile away. And if you don't address your stuff in your own life, don't come into these walls in these spaces, where you're, you're, you're trying to get the students who express everything they're going through, yet, you're not owning your vulnerability and owning your stuff. Right? And then you're coming into the space is trying to get to know the kids on a whole nother level, but you're not giving them anything, right. And that's the power of vulnerability, right? There's power and knowing I've learned this through with my speaking after my dad's passing, which was traumatic. I had a speaking engagement where every time I had an engagement in my alumni, SUNY Cortland, upstate New York, or in a school in New York, I would drive out my dad, and we would have these long conversations and, and really express and we cried, and we laughed, and we had these tough conversations about life. My father, which I really enjoyed and happy that we were able to do. I had one of those setup, a month after he had committed suicide. And I pushed myself I took my uncle with me, and I, you know, did the same thing that I used to do my dad, I had those conversations, and you know, I mean, and go there. But I remember going up and speaking for the first time about it, and I got choked up, I got emotional, teary eyed, it was hard as hell to do. But I pushed through. And then I had another engagement A month later, and it became easier. And the more I talked about it, the more power I had behind it. And I understood it more every time I expressed it. And that's the unique thing that I learned about therapy. My dad used to go to therapy all the time as I Oh, that's crap. They don't i don't tell me nothing. They don't give me no answers this stupid on wasting money. And I kind of fell into that, like thinking that's what therapy was until I went. And then I realized, because my wife kept telling me just go, just go, you need, you need a space to go. And I'm like, why? And then I understood once I got there, like, I started expressing myself, and letting it out, right, in this space for me to understand it better, so that when I go back to my wife, I'm not just dropping it on her. Right? And then I was like, Oh, I'm paying for this space. I don't have to worry about this person's emotions when I'm expressing it. Right? I let it all out, I understand it better. And then I go back to my wife, and then they can be more balanced, right? In our relationship. So I know, I went off on different tangents there. But yeah, basically, you know, I mean, when it comes to the work of restorative justice that I kept on dealing with within schools, it's like they bring me in to deal with the students. But I address it right away. It's the staff that needs to be addressed first. Right.

David (he/him):

That's where this conversation started. Yeah, and but I do think it's like that internal work that we're asking students to behave one way there's, I've quoted this in like, probably the last three podcasts, but like James Baldwin talks about, you know, children are, aren't very good at like, doing what you tell them to do. But they've never failed to do what they've seen model. And so, we, we've got to do as adults, we've got to do that internal work, I would also say as like, people who are administrators in the building, working with staff, you also have to be modeling that work. I do want to acknowledge the thing that you were talking about with, you know, therapy being a space to express and not have to worry about the other person's emotions. Like I have participated in therapy before. And like, in a lot of ways I feel bad about that. Because like, no, like, I know I'm paying you but like, you're still a full human. Yeah, has has a dog who has a partner who has like, all these things going on in your life. Like I feel like I'm monopolizing the space. And, you know, therapy has its place. And I've I've engaged in that in different times. What I've also found healing is building community around circle practices, right where the circle, like, I've participated in men's circles, right? Where we come together and just like, talk that stuff that we come together, we just talk this shit that like we need to get out like whatever's present right? Of course, like whatever set in circles stays in that circle, but like, when you're in a group of people who've come together to hold space for each other, and everything is accepted, whatever comes out when whether it's, you know, celebrating like the the great things that you've done. It's, that's that's totally welcome. But it's also very often the struggles that we're having Either with with work with our relationships, the anger that we're dealing with the addictions that we're dealing with, like those can also be super powerful spaces that we don't necessarily have to rely on, you know, Western constructs of like medicine and therapy to get help and meet our needs. Yeah, go ahead. Good.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Oh, no, I was just agreeing with you. Yeah, I agree with that. What you just said.

David (he/him):

I wanted to go back to you know, what it was like to have those conversations with teachers, staff, adults in the building, who were like, why aren't you? Like, these kids are just getting away with whatever, you're just talking to them? Right. And I think like, reclaiming the phrase, discipline, right? Being disciplined is about how you teach. And the consequences are just whatever happens after right. Like, they don't have to be punishments, right. It's like, what are we doing to restore? Like, how did you navigate those conversations? Because, like, as a restorative justice coordinator, right, there are people who are up against that?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

No, absolutely. And I think that's where the power of vulnerability really goes into alignment. Right? Where I use my message, I use my experience with my father. I learned this a long time ago, how do you get someone to think about their mother, you talk about your mother? Right? And that is the same thing. How do you get people to really think about this work is really, you diving in and sharing to the extreme level, in this work, and my line of work, the way I connect, is telling the story about my dad. And, and really getting people to understand that this is bigger than what we're doing in school is my dad lost his life, because he didn't build these skills. Now, what are you? What are you not doing? Right? What are you causing to not resolve throughout your life, right, that's causing you to not be the best educated that you can be. So I address it that way, from a holistic point of view, before I ever get into the conversation of in the classroom, right. And then usually, people open up, right, they start opening up about their own experiences, and then they start aligning themselves, and I help them connect the dots, how that stuff out there is connecting to your inability or your struggles within the classroom. And that's what is the work of restorative power. When I come in, I don't, you know, point the finger, like, you know, I mean, I go in, I fully am the example. I fully allow myself to go there with people, and then I put them in suit. And when I do engagements, I don't just speak for 45 minutes, as I do I show you do you, you go out and try it out, you have those conversations, and you you you speak about it, right. And I put them in those scenarios to actually express themselves. And I keep on putting pushing them like, hey, it doesn't matter how many people know yourself. Because the more you talk about it, the more you know it and you know better than anybody else, there's power in that we need to let go of that, especially in the spaces where we really tried to create an impact with students and really save lives, right? Because that's what everybody talks about. I want to come in and save lives, right? or help to an extreme level. But we can't do that if we're not allowing ourselves to have those conversations about our own situations, right. And I'm not saying go into the classroom and do that there. Right, like, Hey, this is what I'm dealing with, know what I'm saying, let's deal with yourself outside, so that when you get inside the classroom, you're aware of what it looks like when a kid curses me out and flips over table as a cry for help. If you haven't done the work within yourself, you will see that as a personal attack. And that is the difference. I've seen, I've mentored I've dealt with football looking kids at a towering over me. And I've realized like, if they're screaming, I stay low. I stay, I bring them down to my tone, right? And I don't you know, they come down to me because I'm calm, I can see them and I let them feel like I see you. Right? And bringing that down. But if you haven't addressed things in your own life, you can't do that in a school environment. So that's where it goes to, oh, I need to, I need to call the dean I need to get this kid exploited. I need to you know, I mean, where you're not paying attention to what escalated in the first place. Right? You're not you're not paying attention to the cues, right? Because if you're functioning in your world as ignore, ignore, ignore, let it build let it build. When a kid is in the class building it, you're not aware of when you can stop it before the table flips over. And the kid is like F you. You understand. So that is the type of work that I address when I deal with staff is like no Like, this is how it happens. We are trained to ignore, we are trained to just deal. The first thing we're told when we're in a household is whatever happens in our household stays in our household. That is where it starts. Right? So how do you flip that on its head? Like how do you, how do you, how do you become aware of that, and then say no, like, I need to express more, I need to find spaces where I can express more for me like from, from learning that from therapy, going to therapy has allowed me to build better relationships with men, right with, I used to just go playing basketball, and just sort of the shit and then you know, go on, but like, now I catch myself like we, we play ball, we talk and then we really get to know each other. I'm having conversations about family about upbringing that I never used to have before on after, like, on the side of the basketball court after we just played, right. And I'm allowing myself to go there from the experience of my dad in therapy and understanding like, no, this is healing for me, this is me knowing myself better so that when I go into spaces of teaching, it comes off genuine, and it's not an act, because that's what's happening with teachers and administrators within schools. We're trained to be actors, we're not really trained to really identify who we are, we figure that out through our own experiences. But we need to push that so that we can be the best educators because kids, like you said, like Baldwin said, kids follow what we do. And if we're ignoring they're going to ignore, and then they're going to build it up, and they're not mature enough to deal with the emotions like we are. So they're flipping over and cursing. Now they have these moments, right? But we need to be able to deal with our stuff, so that we can identify it building up within our students, and then we can address it better. So that's the kind of conversations I have to have the teachers open up. And then do so after my speaking engagements have to my meetings with teachers? What are you going to do when you go home? What are you going to call, who you're going to talk to, and that gives you a step closer to being able to sit in a classroom, and hear students see a student and get to know a student to help the student.

David (he/him):

This is a free podcast, y'all, you just got hundreds 1000s of dollars worth of quote unquote professional development, right? Like I know, we can laugh about professional development, but like this is really just about, you know, how we live and move, move through the world. It's internal work fresh relationship with yourself and how you all of that plays out into really about how am I stopping to do the do that work on myself when like, you sense that something is wrong? Instead of just pushing through, right. That's something that that's what you get, like 18 hour work days out of Right. Right? That that's so challenging, so convicting, you've shared a lot. I'm curious if there's been a moment where you're like, Oh, shit, like, I messed this up, like, doing restorative work? And what have you learned from it?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I think that happens all the time. And I think being perfect is unrealistic. You know, I mean, it's all about having those conversations and allowing yourself to say, Hey, I messed up, I was wrong about that. And this is what I learned, right? And this is how I'm trying to correct it. I think it's always putting yourself in that place. I think accountability is key. Putting those people around you that are not afraid to tell you what needs to be said, I believe in so much that I married the person that does that the most like my wife will be the first to tell me when I look stupid. And I need that all my friends are people that are truth tellers. Right? Because I listen, I am not one that is used to confrontation. I grew up in a household where chaos will be happening. And then you know, I mean, the doorbell rings. And it's my grandpa's and everything. Hey, how you doing? And everything's like so is always avoiding and acting like you're okay. And confrontation is horrible. Don't touch that on let's avoid that. Right? And let it build up until like you the person had enough. And then it's a huge fight. Right? And I've seen that my whole life. It didn't work. So for me, it's like, no, like, I want people to be real with me. It's easy to get people to tell you what you want to hear. You know, I mean, it's easy to get around those people. It's hard to find those truth tellers, and you got to find those people that are, are in that space in their life and addressing things within their life to like tell you know that. Why did you say that? Why do you feel that way? My wife will hear me say something on a podcast or in a book that I'm writing and say, what what do you try, you know, you're coming off this way, right? Is that your intention? And I need that, you know, I mean, I need that I have friends that are willing to to have those conversations with me and And stop me and check me. So I think the for me is always allowing myself to be corrected, always allow myself to be wrong. And learning through it and being vulnerable about it. That's the power of vulnerability, you have to be okay with that part, right? And that's how you really build your reaction to it is what builds that relationship. Are you like, Why did you say that? Like, that's messed up? Right? Then there's, the reaction will cause a rift within the relationship. But if it's like, Oh, I didn't know. Because for me, it's like when someone tells me that they care about me, they want me to see something that I'm not seeing now. So I thank them for that. That's how I literally look at constructive feedback. The best thing about me is that I take feedback. That's, and I use that to in my work, like, I'm willing to hear you, I'm willing to hear student now. Because I can't be thinking that I'm on this high horse that I'm talking to students, I'm the best motivational speaker, but I can't, I can't hear a student tell me what I did wrong. That's ridiculous. Like, I got to hear from the, from the students, I got to hear from the staff, like, hey, like, You pushed a little too much. They're like, I felt uncomfortable, and have those conversations, and then I get better through the experience. And I think, doing that as a lifestyle with my daughter, who's seven, and is willing to tell me that I correct me or like, tell me something like I'm fully there, you know. So I think surrounding yourself around that is the best thing you can do to actually live the lifestyle of restoring yourself and others. So, yeah, that's what I'm doing now and constantly in search of getting better and being around people that will go there with me. So I enjoyed that. It makes me better. And I want that.

David (he/him):

Yeah, you've shared this in a lot of different ways. But I'm curious how you'll respond to it in this moment. You know, you're still a young man, how do you want to continue to grow in this work?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I think just relationship building, I think that's the biggest thing. Every person that I interact with, every school that I work with, is bigger than me, just being a consultant is bigger than me that just being someone that helps them figure out a problem or solve a problem. I want to build relationships, like I really want people to know, I want to know them. And I want them to know me on a personal level. So like, the relationships that are built with the schools that I've worked with, I've been able to achieve that I want to continue to achieve that, you know, um, for example, like the reason I, I was, I was building my business for a whole year and a half. And then I get a call from a relationship that I built with the assistant principal at the high school that I was a restorative justice coordinator, and she started our own school, as he said, your work was impactful. I love what you do with high school students, let's get them early. Do you want to teach your curriculum in my elementary kindergarten to sixth? And I was like, Yeah, I would love to, you know, I mean, and, and having those relationships like that the school the new visions for the Humanities in the Bronx that has implemented my curriculum over the last two years, going on three now. The whole staff, like we talk, right, it's not just, you know, I mean, I've reached out to the assistant principal and the principal, and it's more about like, Hey, how you doing? How's the family? Right? So I think it's about that relationship piece. Because, you know, in this world, it's, it's a need, and it could be caught in a way of like, hey, let me make more money. Let me let me get in this, this this world so that I can, you know, build my business, right? Or, you know, I mean, and I don't, I want to keep it genuine, because I think what I preach about what I talk about is about being home, and, and, and, and living it out. So with that I want to continue to build this relationships with the staff that the staffs that I work with the schools that I work with the people that I meet the people that I interact with, so that I can really continue to be a lifestyle for me.

David (he/him):

Yeah. As someone who is the and this is just like advice for myself, right? Because I have you here as someone who is like behind you coming up behind you, in this work doing similar things, right. How do you discern what relationships are right to continue to invest in, right, because you can't be in a relationship with everybody? Yeah, they're infinite people in the world. There are only so many ways that you can direct your energy in any given time.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Oh, great. I think you stay consistent. And you stay yourself, right? And then you pay attention to their reactions. And it's not like oh F that person is more like, oh, that person's not there yet. So I just can't go there with that person. And that's what it is. You got to on this, I wasn't always here. And I mean, I'm flawed, very flawed, right. And it took a long process to get me here. Right. And I've seen, you know, I seen a lot of craziness. I told you a little pieces of my father and my upbringing, but I seen a lot of a lot more craziness, right. So my thinking I had to, I had to do a lot of unlearning, I had to do a lot of processing, to really identify who I wanted to be and who I am today, right? And who I want to be in the future. Right? So me understanding like, no, learning this from my wife. And there's another aspect like, his marriage is crazy, right? Because everybody changes, every five years, you're a completely different person. Think about that, for you to ask somebody to grow at the same rate that you are is insane. So that's why you need to continue having those conversations every year, like, hey, do you feel the same way? Are you? How will you about this, if you don't have those conversations, you're going to be caught up in a whole world of mess, because for you to think that that person is not changing, right? Or you're changing faster than that person, or vice versa, you know, that stuff happens. So having those conversations, I think, you putting yourself in a place of, hey, that person's not here yet. I allow myself to go there, I build that relationship, I stay consistent. But my awareness is there like, hey, this person's not there. So you just don't allow us you see that they're not there. And then you just, you know, I mean, you move forward saying, okay, I can't go there with this person, right. But I don't say I wouldn't say change yourself, be consistent, be yourself, but be aware of people's reactions. And don't, don't put too much judgment on them just be like, hey, they're not there yet. Right. And maybe your interaction with them will be something that will be a lightbulb moment, five years down the line for them, where they'll be like, Oh, they want to get there now. Right. But, and like I said, it's difficult, it's hard. But there's power in vulnerability, I'm gonna keep saying that. The more I allow myself to go there and talk about these difficult things, and or, the more power I receive, right, the more understanding of myself and my story I get. And it doesn't matter who knows who learns it. Right? It's, it's, it's more about me understanding it better. So, for me, and my advice to you is stay consistent. And just be aware, and don't don't judge people so harshly, right? Because, you know, and I'm sure you will say the same about you, you're not perfect. And it took a process to get where you're at. So when you're getting to know people and having these conversations with people, just allow yourself to be aware and know when to step back. Right? Oh this person isn't, sn't there yet. So you know, I'm a, I'm a step back a little. Right. And, and have those conversations with people when they can go there. So allow myself to go and just be aware, right? There's no judgment, there's no expectation. I think that's what I was trying to say don't expect anything from anybody. Just allow yourself to go there and then pay attention to how they react and where, where they go from there. Yeah, yeah. Does that make sense?

David (he/him):

Yeah, for sure. And, you know, this is like a pull behind the curtain for people listening. Like, the real real reason that I have this podcast is so I can talk to people like you and learn and like you just, you just fed me a lot. So thank you for being here. And you know, tangential benefit, everybody else could still listen to this and learn as well. I want to transition into the questions that everybody answers. We've talked about it in different ways. But for you to find restorative justice.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

restorative justice is about, like I said, before getting to the root cause and looking at discipline discipline differently. Right, getting away from the punitive aspect is started in the prison system, where you're trying to get the person well, way before that, but the label of restorative justice came from, you know, getting the offender to sit down with the one that was offended and have a conversation, right? And what and what I'm trying to build out now, with the restorative work is make it a lifestyle, because I've been in schools trying to build it out. And if you're not taking the work at home, it's not really going to work inside the building. So I think when we're trying to make this Really Work, we have to make it around the clock and take it home with us and practice it fully. So that's how I look at restorative justice or restorative practices. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

David (he/him):

I've asked this question a bunch of different ways. And like, I don't always get the, the answer that I'm looking for. So I'm going to phrase it differently this time. What is a place or situation that you've witnessed recently? where you're like, dang, I really wish they knew about restorative justice work. So for example, you and I both watch are avidly watching the playoffs, right? NBA playoffs, and when we have these fan interactions of violence towards players and like they are, quote, unquote, indefinitely banned, right? How is that solving the problem? Yes, it's like Temporary Protection. But how are we like, restoring that relationship, both between the player and an entitled white person who is like, causing violence, but also like with the greater community?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Dude, that's an amazing question. I love that. And I'm a I'm an ex college basketball player, and I follow basketball very closely. So that's a really good question. I think it's, it's very similar to the school system, you do something, you get suspended, you're banned. Right? Do they learn now? So then the school to prison pipeline continues? I think also with the conversations about race and discrimination, allowing yourself the best thing that I did, I went to all white school, mostly predominately white school, SUNY Cortland, upstate New York, the best thing that I did was say, Hey, I can be uncomfortable. And you know, I mean, go with what I'm comfortable with the people that come from where I've come from, or I could just go out there and have those uncomfortable conversations. And I had lunches, I would see people randomly in classrooms or in the hallways for lunch. And just have those conversations, why do you feel the way you feel? like where's that coming from? What did you go through that made you think that that's okay, right. And I think I saw the value in that, because, you know, once they those conversations have started, right, you're able to, you know, and I understand my privilege, like, I'm very aware, like I, you know, the way I look allows me to go in certain spaces, and be able to have those conversations easier than other people, for sure.

David (he/him):

For people who aren't seeing if you're light skinned.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Yes, yes, yes. So, and I'm, and I'm very, because I grew up in a, my, my family's from Puerto Rico. So my brother is like, dark, right? My blood brother is dark, my grandma looks black. My dad is very fair skinned. So like, I come from like a mix. And then I grew up in a black and brown community, all my friends normally will go to the grocery store, or go to stores and my friends will be followed, I wouldn't. So I'm very aware of what is going on. And my right to this work, and living, but allowing myself to have those conversations with people and and allow to address it, right. And what I'm noticing now, if you get someone to pause, that's that's a that's an improvement, right? Where if they're about to say a word, or they're about to do something that's inappropriate, or right, and they catch themselves off of the conversation you've had with them does work in in the right direction. That's what I saw in college, right? Where they be like, Oh, that's, I mean, my that, because of my presence, my presence made them feel like they had to correct themselves. The only way you get to get that is by having those conversations and go in there. So like when it comes to these NBA arenas, with the fans acting out like that, which is completely inappropriate. Some conversations needs to be had because you're not fixing the problem, you're building more anger, and the entitlement grows, right? And it gets them to feel like, Hey, there, I just get kicked out that's wrong or whatever. And it just continues, right? Because obviously, it hasn't, they're hoping like after the first one that would like three more that happened several days after and it's just like, they obviously saw what happened to the person. Right. So it's not fixing the problem. It's temporary, as you said, I think conversations need to be had to have an understanding and a work through the process of like, how do you not make that happen? Again? What is going on in your life that makes you feel like that's okay to do or what do you not, you know, addressing because most people will not react in these ways are angry about a lot more than the situation that's in front of them here. You know what I mean?

David (he/him):

Yeah. So that was a beautiful response. And you did To answer my question, which is the challenge of, like, what's the situation that you've witnessed recently? There's like, oh, wish they knew restorative justice. Okay. And being?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Yeah yeah, um, because it happens constantly, like, when I see parents dealing with children at the store or in the park, or, you know, I mean, I think a parent dealing with child outside, right. And, and, and thinking the way of discipline is to strike fear in the child, right and, and not have that conversation. It reminds me, last time I saw that was a couple. couple weekends ago, I saw that and then it immediately made me think about my situation where I would do something wrong, and my mom would beat me, but you know, there'll be no explanation. And therefore, it becomes, hey, I don't want to do that again, because I don't want this scar. Again, I'll be right and and, and then me continuing and then me have an experience for my daughter, my daughter, and this is this, this is the best way to answer this question. I saw that situation with a parent, right, disciplining their child off of something trivial that they did the parent reacting poorly, and lashing out on her stress on the child, right? That she's not personally dealing with, put it on the child, right? By discipline, right. So I saw that. And then with my daughter, like, recently, she went on our iPad, we put she's seven in her school, she has iPad, and now to do activities on it. Then they get breaks. And on the break, she went through, and I have my my tablets connected to tablets. So she bought a bunch of apps, I'm talking hundreds of dollars, perhaps. And I got the notifications, and I was peers and natural reaction is like, Hey, old school, like not, it's never gonna happen again. But no approach. And learning this from my wife, too, is like saying, Hey, I'm disappointed that this happened, because we explained to you in the past, why you shouldn't do this. Right?

David (he/him):

An effective statement like hearing feelings. Yeah,

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Exactly. Like, this is what it did. For me, this is how I felt when I got the notification on my phone, showing that I was disappointed showing the sadness, and that I felt in that moment, understanding what she just did. And then having that conversation with her on like, what transpired after that, like, because of this, this happens, right? And then having my daughter be able to see her reaction in that and then see her like, understand, like, why she shouldn't do it again, and then her coming up and get us giving her the opportunity to come up with what to do. And because it's all about patience, it's like, what is patience waiting for what you want, you felt like you went behind that? Is that because you wanted those games so bad, because your friends had them. But you didn't have the patience to you know, I mean, so like, what do we have to do to build that patience? Right, and come up with techniques. And then ever since you know, it's been better, right? And then seeing that and thinking like, wow, like, you know, I mean, where's this coming from? Like, I mean, she think about on the history of discipline, even when black and brown people like, where does it come from? All the way back to slavery? Right? where, you know, I mean, that discipline, that beating is to build that fear. So it doesn't happen again. Right. Um, and then the trauma was passed down generational trauma, like that's how it was passed down. And

David (he/him):

We teach you to stay safe in the world by these are things to do to be not true

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Exactly, exactly, and we have never really seen right affects of the other way. And now we're trying to figure that out with this resort. And this was so weird, where, you know, man, for people to actually unlearn that and do it this way. I see the benefits is a lot of like work that we have to do within ourselves. Because natural reactions are like, hey, do what you were told do what you were seeing what you seen growing up or do what wasn't done to you. And this is like hundreds and hundreds of years passed down. So like but like seeing the benefits of it. And I think getting people to do it in their own lives. You start seeing the benefits so that is being done within the schools. me seeing it done with my daughter brings it full circle when I do it with a child. When it's natural reaction, the kid is tripping and bugging out. And I could take it personally. I could see it as a cry for help and then build those skills. So like, you know, I mean, have that not repeat itself, with an understanding of why and how right And I think on a deeper level when kids react, I see my father. And I see my daughter. And I think if we could get teachers, staff within schools to see somebody in their lives when they see these children, these students, it will, it will bridge the gap have been implemented restorative practices are here. Yeah. Was that able to answer the question this time?

David (he/him):

Yes, definitely. And I think like, one of the things for me is everybody talks about family. And I think that's true. I'm trying to figure out a way to like, get people to think like the, the not so like, serious. Like in the big scheme of things, like, somebody's got popcorn thrown on them. Is that dehumanizing? Yes. Is that perpetuating? Like, I'm cutting this out of the podcast? But like, is this perpetuating like, vicious cycles of like, ownership of black bodies? Like, I paid for my ticket, so I get to do whatever I want for you. Yes. And like, that is not the most serious problem in the world. Like, so. Like, I'm yeah. And like, I think like, the way that you reacted in your analysis that was was also Okay, so maybe it's just on me to bring the like, more trivial fantastical, like, out there thing, and then like, let the guests grounded. Um, so yeah,

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

I think I think that's important. I think those are great conversations to have I have this conversation. My, my wife is a black woman. So like, I have these conversations constantly. Right? And she she brings that up, like there's a deeper like, even these trivial things that's passed down trauma that they're not even aware of like, like you said, the popcorn being thrown on someone and the idea of it being the I pay my ticket over this black body, like you have to, you know, I mean, like it, it does connect on a deeper level, and then being able to have these conversations where I this is the thing, what are we afraid of? Why are we afraid to make them uncomfortable? We have to make them uncomfortable. The only way you get better is by being uncomfortable. Right? I have learned from being uncomfortable. That is what accountability is having people check you. Right. But when it comes to this type of stuff, like people, one, even the last president doesn't like to be kept accountable, right? Because they never had to, right? They're not used to accountability. We need to create spaces where accountability is more normalized. Across the board, like why did you do that? Like even seeing children, like I'm dealing with kindergarten kids right now and you see it, you see it right now and kindergarten kids five, six years old? Like I'm addressing it, I'm addressing those things now. Like, why do you feel the need to tell? Every time on not only black suits? I don't say that, like I don't say the only black student, but I'm like, I see it. And then I'm addressing it right and kindergarten. So I'm like, why do you feel you need to tell on David every time? Where's that coming from? When he just did the same thing? In front of you. But you didn't have this? You know, I mean? And it's just like it starts very young. But are they ever held accountable and kindergarten teachers? Right, I'm seeing until there's so much going on where I can see how easily it is like don't do that, hey, stop or discipline the child. And then the kid gets used to being told on the kid gets used to being the one that doing wrong. Imagine what that does to the psyche as they go into school. And then the world. Right? Yeah, it all connects. So I think it's important that you brought that up? For sure. For sure.

David (he/him):

You get to sit in circle with four people that are alive. Who are they? And what is the question? You asked the circle?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Oh, who Whoo. Dead are alive for sure. Jay Z. I would love to even in his last album, you saw a lot of that work being done. For where he talks about, you know, identify what he's done in his relationship with his mother with his wife. So like, seeing his process will be interesting. So him so for people right? Without me occluder right. You and for others. Alright me and for this Jay Zfor for sure. I would like to get Tupac in the show. I think he was a very complex person just to pick his mind. Let me see here. Nelson Mandela. And this is tough. This is really hard four people to sit down with then I got to come up with a question. So I have Jay Z, Nelson Mandela, Tupac. My dad. Yeah, my dad because I think my dad would have. I've always wished my dad had more conversations with men to sit in these type of spaces where people have done different things in their lives. Right. I had different perspectives. So I think those four people, and the question that I would ask is, what are you afraid? or What were you afraid of most? Growing up that people knew? Right? What were you afraid that people will know about you? Yeah, I think that's the question like, whether now or growing up that you have to get over? Yeah. And I said, you. Okay, go on.

David (he/him):

I'll go first. Yeah. I mean, I do have to think about it. I remember. I think it's just like, that. I felt like, I was a weird kid. And I was just trying to fit in and like, I know, that's not concrete. But, man, they're like, yeah, like, my fourth grade class knew this. But like, there is like, a straight up week, where I like, spoke as if I was pikachu, right? And, like, you know, my best friend Carlos at the time, were like, when we were hanging out, like, I'm, like, he like, fully embraced me and accepted that and like, everyone else was just like, what the hell is happening? Right? Like, you know, you learn to hide those, like weird things about yourself, right, those things that are abnormal, or like not conforming. And so like, you know, the whole like, Pika, Pika, like. So like, you know, I started to just hide those things and not be as open and I think like, that, as trivial as it is, like, you know, for a 10 year old to be thinking about those things, like I do think that had like lasting impact. Think about, like other times in eighth grade, where I'd be excited to share something that like I thought, like, other people might think was weird, or are not normal or uncool. So growing up, like, just like those, like those unique things about me that I like, really want to nerd out about here. I don't know how they'll be accepted.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

There. That's a good one. Thank you for sharing that. I think for me, something that I had to get over, and I fully own now is, people knowing that I wasn't about although I engaged in it and man, I fully fit the stereotype of a student athlete, the popular kid that, you know, dated the girls that, you know, I mean, everybody was into and, you know, was active or whatnot, I always wanted, I was into monogamy and building my way to be a good husband and the whole, you know, I was very, like, my, my favorite type of movie was a romantic comedy. I was into, like, you know, I grew up on the Fresh Prince. So seeing uncle Pharaoh have that household and that love and seeing a powerful man. You know, go through his, his things, but always be able to say, you know, I love you to his wife, and you care so much and care for his family. I always wanted that. And I wanted to build that. So me struggling to find myself as a kid, because I did what I thought I had to, like, had my dad telling me I had to add uncles or cousins or be like, hey, just get with that girl or do this or, I mean, be be like this with women. And I never was like that I always wanted to get to know the women that I was engaging with, and actually work on getting closer to being the husband that I am today. And I'm still growing and learning. And but you know, I mean, I think that's something that I fear people knowing because of the image of the man that I had to pretend to be right. And, like, you know, kind of like, that's why Jay Z's last album was very influential to me. I'm seeing how he was able to put that all down like someone that at his at, his level of success and achievement like for him to say, you know what, none of that matters. I think it's powerful. I would have enjoyed having that album 10 years earlier, you know, 10, 20 years 50 years earlier where I would have been like Oh, oh, yeah, for sure. You know, I mean, but yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. And, I would have loved to hear the other perspectives in that circle that I have from those people to talk about with.

David (he/him):

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's always interesting. People always pick men.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Hmm. I think I

David (he/him):

barely pick men.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Yeah, I think for me, it's because and I talked about this with my wife yesterday. Like, men don't have these conversations. If look, for example, and I say this all the time. And now I'm having more and more of these conversations with men, about marriage, about fatherhood, like, men don't, we're not trained. We're just trained to, like, provide and, and, and, and, you know, I mean, we're not taught about postpartum depression. We're not taught about what the women goes through, or whatever. And we just have to deal like, I cried from my babies. But I was amazing. During pregnancy, like, I was great. I was doing everything. The moment my daughter was born, I realized I had never been around a baby. I was I lighting that I was in a hospital, like sobbing, like, I'm a dropout. I'm a breaker, like, I don't know what to do. Like, and like, I've never told that to a man. So like having to have those conversations and be vulnerable with men. For me, in particular, I think more men, more boys need to see that more often. So for me, picking men to have those conversations is is is something that I would like to see. Because this hasn't been done as often about topics that will help men be better men in the future.

David (he/him):

Yeah, yeah. It's funny because like it, it generally follows the pattern of like, some, some one in your family line, an artist, a historical figure, like Mandela, and like, he went with another artist, but like, if it was, it's always kind of that makes often men like, you know, Malcolm X, I'm okay. If I'm like, Oh,

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

yes, yes, yes.

David (he/him):

What is one affirmation or mantra that you want to leave everyone listening with?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Oh, this is hard. I have a good one, I'm gonna go with what I usually say. My dad, thinking about my dad, every generation is supposed to do better than the last, your job is to make your last name greater than his past. So whatever was being done, in your household, or in your family, on unlearning, and breaking the cycle is okay. So that you can make next generation better. Right? So for example, before my parents generation, it was a by education, get everybody to go to college, right? And then now is about, okay, we get to college, let's understand how to be financially free. Right. And, and, and trauma free, right? Well, not trauma free, understand your trauma and have those conversations. So like, for me, it's like, you know, my mom and dad did a good job of getting me to where I'm at. Now, my job is to pass the baton and have my daughter be further than me. And then, you know, continue that pattern. So that's what I would leave. I think about that mantra a lot though. The little quote that I came up with a couple of years ago, every generation is supposed to do better than the last. Your job is to make last name creative dentists pass. So I'm gonna go with Apple.

David (he/him):

Two more questions. Who's one person I should have on this podcast? And you got to hook it up if you know them.

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Someone that would like to see on this podcast on restorative practices Anita already? She hasn't been on so you can like hit her up and be like, she hasn't been on? No, she hasn't been on I'm gonna get Anita on needs to be on here. Anita needs to be a C's. Look, I got into this is the connection with me and Anita, like, I got into restorative justice at the KIPP Isa High School and the principal, new Anita, as she was my mentor. Anita was the one that taught me about curriculum taught me about like running this course that I built. I did presentation at her school, I bought my kids to her school. And vice versa. her kids came to my school like she helped me build this whole thing that I'm doing now at that I could be so high school when I was hired as a restorative justice coordinator. And she was, she was the best. Like I learned from her. She She built her restorative program within her school, over six years where, you know, it was like crazy where her students were like handling stuff, her students were going around dealing with stuff that was going on on campus. And I was like, Whoa, so like, that's where I was like, This needs to be like something normalized. Kids need to need to be student to student accountability. It can't just be teachers coming in, or Dean's it has to be a holistic, right. So I got that all from her. She's amazing. I would highly recommend Anita to be on this podcast. And she's a great minds pick.

David (he/him):

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to be looking forward for that nudge, nudge email, like, hey, find some time this summer? And then last question, finally, how and where can people support you in your work in the ways that you want to be supported?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Everything, everything, everything is on my website, cJ motivation.com, very simple. My Instagram, CJ motivation. Everything could buy everything you can find on my website, and my book is on Amazon, translating your success. Very easy read, every chapter is three to four pages long at the end of each chapter are reflection questions for the students to or the reader to do the work with themselves. So the first chapter, as I talked about, is about how I found out addiction was real, and how I had to learn how to switch my questions up so I can understand my father. The first question in the book is, what do you need to talk to write down the questions you need to ask, go have that conversation and reflect on what happened from that conversation. So this is actually like a tool that people can use to start the work and live I talk about being the son, athlete, father, husband, all different aspects of my life. every chapter is different. I hated reading growing up my mom's an educator, she forced me to read. So the first book that I read was the Alchemist, cover to cover. And it made me into inspired me to, you know, create something that will be easy to read for students, and anybody and then you start doing the work with themselves. So this aligns to the work that I'm doing. You can find that on Amazon. And yeah, I'm on today.

David (he/him):

Yeah. Yeah. And we'll get those all linked in the in the show notes below. Thank you so much, Carlos, for all the time and the wisdom that you've dropped for me. And you know, everybody else benefited too, I guess. Is there anything else that you want to leave people with?

Carlos J. Malave (he/him):

Yeah, um, so what I do is I help implement restorative practice curriculum within schools. And then I also train people to build their own curriculum. So I bought I got I do a bunch of different things. But if you want to connect to that also hit me up on through my email, that's on my website, everything's on my website, CJ motivation. If you want to, you know, either collab on a school event, or implementation of curriculum to make it holistic, or, you know, just have a conversation about learning about the work and bringing it to your school differently. So I'm open to that. But I appreciate you, David, for having me on having this conversation. And I appreciate you and I look forward to building a relationship with you.

David (he/him):

Yeah, absolutely. Again, thank you so much, Carlos. for all that you've shared, you know how to get a hold of him. All those links are gonna be in the show notes. So next week, we'll have another episode with another amazing guest. Until then, take care and we'll see you next week.