Abbott Elementary S1E10 "Open House" w/ Martin Urbach (Restorative Justice Reflections)

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Heyo, david here. Restored of Justice Reflections was created as a video first medium because we're including video clips from the shows we're talking about. You can still hear our full conversation here with the audio from the clip, but for the full experience and to see our beautiful faces, head over to our YouTube page link below. If you're only going podcasts or your thing, please bear with the mentions of video and clips and use your imagination. Enjoy. Welcome back to Restored of Justice Reflections.

Speaker 1: 0:53

I'm David, ryan, barcaza, castro, harris all five names for all the ancestors and today I'm here with Martín Urbac to dive deep into the restorative themes, or lack thereof, found in season one, episode 10 of ABC's Abba Elementary Open House. As always, our conversation here is not a critique of the story or production choices of the creators, but we'll highlight how restorative justice could apply to situations like building and strengthening relationships between teachers and student caregivers and within your own family. Hopefully, this will give you some insight about how to apply restorative ways of being into your life in and out of the classroom. If you want to take a deeper look at applying restorative justice to your life, join our Inner Circle community to connect with RJ-minded individuals and get bonus content deep in your practice by checking out our courses and if you want to see this work in your school or organization, invite us for coaching or training on implementing this work. Of course, the links to everything down below. Now let's get to it, martín, thank you so much for being here. Tell the people about yourself.

Speaker 3: 1:50

Hey y'all, peace and blessing to everybody. It's such an honor to be here. My name is Martín Urbac. I am a white Latino immigrant. I'm a drummer, I'm a percussionist, I'm a composer, I'm an educator, I'm a restorative justice coordinator, I'm a youth organizer. I'm a connoisseur of good and bougie coffee and also good and bougie ramen. And, yeah, I work with youth many, many, many hours a day and I love it and I'm living a blessed life organizing youth and doing playing music with youth. Beautiful, it's lost me.

Speaker 1: 2:29

Oftentimes in the context of schools, which you know isn't a requirement for people to be on this podcast to talk about what's going on, but it is helpful. I know you've just recently started watching Abba Elementary. What have been your impressions so far?

Speaker 3: 2:43

Well, you know, I feel like I spent a long time waiting for just to watch it. I've spent a long time people telling me you know, you gotta watch this, let's go watch it together. And I literally just started watching it two weeks ago because I felt like I had the time. Yeah, so I just watched episode 10 today and, to be honest, like, I really love the show. I mean, obviously, quinta Brunson is a brilliant, brilliant TV maker, actress, producer Everybody in the show is incredible.

Speaker 3: 3:17

So that's, without a doubt, one of the things that is a big, big, big theme for me is that schools are complicated places and the people that work in schools. We are just so different from one another and I even sometimes think that schools are not real. Like this place can be real. I really love Janine's character because she's a brand new teacher, like she's young. She has this ability to remind me why I started teaching, like I really, really, really love that idea of like you always trying to help and it's always like cool and you're always happy. And because, to be honest, like teaching brings me to that place. Teaching and being around you brings me to the place of like there's nothing else I'd rather be doing, and so that's a big, that's a big, huge theme for me to remind me, especially as, like, I've been teaching for 17 years.

Speaker 1: 4:21

Speaking to those 17 years you've been in the game like and you seeing this young energy, I'm curious if you could take us back to the beginning of your education journey, because yours is not the typical route that many people take. I'm curious why you decided that education was the thing for you. I'm curious like what was it about making you decide that education was for you?

Speaker 3: 4:48

You know, I think that I just always resonated with education. But I remember me being in the fifth grade and going to sit by the kindergarten wing in my elementary school and teaching kindergarteners how to play the guitar informally, or the recorder, or singing. I remember being in third grade and skipping my own classes to go to the middle school music classes and like because I was taking lessons, already being able to teach and be like a TA right, and so when I went to college for jazz drumming, education was just, it was just always there. There was opportunities to go in the community and do bucket brigade classes and percussion ensembles, and so my life has always been like a pizza pie where sometimes, like there's more slices made out of performing or composing or producing and teaching, and the more slices the more I tasted the slice of teaching. To me, like my whole pizza pie became just like around education, and I still perform live and do shows and go on tour. Really, I think that the more I've done education, the more I've wanted to do it.

Speaker 1: 6:05

You mentioned like being attracted to teaching. Was there a teacher who was like really influential for you at a young age?

Speaker 3: 6:15

Yeah, I mean, I've had so many different teachers that were the were instrumental, right Not to use that music, music pun to my development. But I would even say that who, like, saved my life, you know, like, like, my mama passed away when I was 10. And my community music teacher, like he was, like he was not only just at the wake, but he was like, you know, little man, like, here's a set of drums, let me teach you how to play the drums, because I think that this is going to be really good for you. And you come pick me up from the house because my dad really wasn't able to do it at that time. So, folks who really showed up for me and who really, like, spent all the time and the care and the effort.

Speaker 3: 6:56

And so, in Latin America, I'm from Bolivia, but my teacher is from Argentina, so we would have my day, which is, like you know, my day together, and he would make my day, and we would just like play music together for hours, right, and so that kind of music making, that kind of music education around, built on relationship building and also built on care and also built on, like, this idea that, like you know, your life's hard like, let me, let me try, let me at least try to help, has really been transformational for me, and I think it's really informed how I move as an educator, as an RJ practitioner, and so seeing Jeanine always just trying to be like, let me just try to do this, and I'm exhausted or I've not even really know what it is that I'm doing, but I'm gonna just try, Like I can't let this kind of go like that. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 7:57

Yeah, definitely, and I think, like so much of that, accompaniment right is what is necessary for positive relationship building, building trust. You see this model in a couple ways in this episode, modeled in particular right, not necessarily between teachers and students, but between adults outside of the classroom. And what I love about Abba Elementary is that not only are they taking time to show in a comedic way what happens in the context of a classroom with teachers and students, but that teachers are full, complex people outside of that and have lots of different dynamics at play, which we all do. And so, thinking about the ways that Janine interacts with Barb, the parents, all different types of things in this episode are ripe for conversations.

Speaker 2: 8:48

You know your Barbara's blood daughter, and I'm her work daughter, her work daughter, yeah, oh God, oh no, no, no, you're not jealous, are you? Because you got all the perks? So many perks, yeah, shopping trips, boy talks, period talks those must have been moving. Wish I could have gotten one for my mom, or even Barbara. So why don't we just take a look at some of the children's art?

Speaker 1: 9:09

A lot going on in this episode and we're only gonna focus on a small part of that right. Listeners of this podcast know like I have a hard time having genuine conversations about Eva because, like I have a hard time taking her seriously and like having real conversations or real restorative conversations about this. So we're gonna leave that part of that to the side, really focusing on Janine, barbara, taylor and Nina's mom, janine's students parent. We see a lot of people trying their best to connect and failing in so many ways, and we often talk about restorative justice as this building, strengthening as well as repairing relationships rooted in equity and trust, and I think this episode does a really good job of showing like those various stages of that within the interactions between Janine and Nina's mom, taylor and Barbara, and then Janine and Barbara. So what stood out for you?

Speaker 3: 10:06

You know, one of the things that stood out for me the most specifically, I saw that let's break this two different little situations down right. The first situation between Taylor and Barbara.

Speaker 2: 10:18

Well, so what do you do, taylor? I represent a global brand. We promote friendship and fun. She sells booze. I'm a rep for a high-end alcohol company. Oh, oh, I love high-end alcohol. I don't drink it, but I do love the commercials. The most interesting man in the world. He seems interesting to me. The spirit I recognize is the spirit of the Lord. Here we go again. I'm just saying with your gifts you could be helping people. You don't need to just say that, mom.

Speaker 2: 10:44

Well, I feel like I do. See, this is a kind of open dialogue that I'm hoping to have with this parent leader. Well, I'm sorry, we can't all be Saint Barbara.

Speaker 3: 10:52

Right. Like as an educator, one of the most uncomfortable things that I usually have to do, especially as a restorative justice mediator, is to conflict resolution. Do conflict resolution between a parent and their kid Right? Or, like I have done, conflict resolution between two coworkers? I've never done it between a coworker and their parent. But interpersonal conflict resolution is super hard to do, we all know that right.

Speaker 3: 11:24

But the thing that stood out for me was that Janine, I think in a way, yeah, she's like super pushy, she's like a real sunshine, like I am here and love and light everybody. She's gonna make you accept that positive vibrations. But she's really trying to help at every moment. She's like trying to redirect conflict and peacemake. Hey, there's a tense situation. I think that one of the things that she was, I think that when Barbara was, when she asked like, oh Taylor, what do you do? And Taylor was like, oh, I'm a rep for a brand, and then Barbara said, oh, she sells booze. She immediately is like trying to like huh, you know I don't consume it, but it's. She's like redirecting, she's keeping a hundred right, she's keeping it real. She's not like BSing oh my gosh, I love booze, but she's trying to connect and redirect and so I really connected with that aspect of it. And also, as soon as that scene ends, the next scene starts. Would Janine just going and checking in with Barbara Barbara?

Speaker 2: 12:43

it's okay, janine Taylor and I have had that conversation many times. Oh well, I hope it works out.

Speaker 3: 12:54

Because you can just see how much Janine really wants that relationship to work, especially between her and Barbara, right Between Janine and Barbara Just going and closing the loop on, like hey, how you doing, what's going on, like, how are you feeling, which is a pretty restorative way of not just conflict. I don't think that conflict like. I think we can agree that that kind of conflict is not gonna get resolved in one scene or a conversation. But I think that one cool thing about it was this idea of just being human with each other and just connecting and then also adding the layers of like Janine's a brand new teacher, super young. Barbara is a pretty seasoned teacher who's been doing it for a long. She's also an elder. There's also this thing of like oh, I want to be loved by you. And Barbara is also a little bit of like leave me alone, but also I love you too.

Speaker 1: 13:56

Yeah, lots of different dynamics at play. If you're appreciating this video, like to help us in the YouTube algorithm, subscribe so you won't miss the video and share it with someone to help us further amplify this work. Now back to the show. You know, for people who have watched the show we'll get into why that might be a trauma response for Janine. Later, as the show progresses, I won't spoil anything for you because you haven't gotten there. But when I think about those needs to like connect, like it can also be coded as like people pleasing right, just for the sake of like going along, to get along, and sometimes that's what's needed in order to like get a foot in the door, to like continue a relationship, like make one connection so you can like take it to the next level, right, like. I don't think Janine necessarily has aspirations to be like in deep personal relationship with Taylor, like in some ways, like that's our competition we're competing for.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Barbara's attention, love and care and, of course, like it's not actually what plays out in this episode, but you know, having connection with Taylor often will, in her eyes, put Barb in a place that is more likely to give her, like, love, care, support that she needs, like in that mother-daughter dynamic that she is going for. Again, we don't need to get into, like Janine's dynamic with her mother just yet because you haven't gotten there, but you know that's that's also present. When I also think about Janine as somebody who is always trying to connect, it's really interesting to see the way that like that manifests in her interactions with Nina's mom, this parent that she's been trying to connect with all year but have just been disconnecting, and I think the way that this manifests that, I think the way that this plays out in this episode, is really common in schools, right, parents aren't always responsive and the way that Janine navigates us might not be the way that we most restoratively would want to do things.

Speaker 3: 15:49

But, as you were watching this, go on the struggle, go on what came up for you one of the things that came up for me is that, like we just we just never know where where people are at. You know, like we're trying to meet people where they're at, and and also the reality is that we are also there, right, like we are teachers and or restorative justice practitioners, but that we're also human, we're also there and seeing. That was the first time in this season, or, for me, the first time that I've seen Janine not be like positive, like a rare sunshine, like in you know at all, like I didn't know that she had it in her right, and then that reminded me like, oh, this, like I have done that a million times. I have been that person in which I passed judgment, or a parent, or I got really upset, or, you know, I woke up extra early to go to school at 7 30 in the morning to meet with a parent, because that's when they could meet, and then they didn't show and and so to me, like that hit really, that hit really hard, because I've been in position of, like I'm trying to connect with you, like I'm trying to help your child, I'm trying to help, like help me, help you, and immediately just make like a whole story in my head as to why this parent, like how much they're that parent, or how much they don't care about their child, or how much maybe I upset them so they're avoiding me.

Speaker 3: 17:21

So they're like you know, I start thinking all the ways in which, like you know, they're like blocking my phone number so I actually call for my friend's phone and just really knowing, like you never know. You never know where people are and, although there might be some, some families are just like so overwhelmed with their children or with life. They're like you know what. I can't deal with this right now, so I'm not, not gonna show up to parent-teacher conference or whatever. I I don't really ever want to be in a position in which I am making that, I'm producing that, moving my head like I would rather be wrong and be like you know what. This parent can't come and there's a really great reason why they're not coming rather than be like, oh, they're just out there partying and they don't care about their child, right?

Speaker 1: 18:11

when we're doing work around relationships. I think sometimes it is often thrown around like, assume good intent, right, and I don't think that's always helpful. But in this case, right, when we know from a restorative justice lens that, like, in general, people want to be in good relationship. That doesn't mean that they want to be best friends, happy, hugging, sunshine, unicorn, rainbows with everybody, but in general, people would do want to be in good relationship. And the reason that people aren't in good relationships, often because they're trying to get another need met, right, in this case, the need for, like, continued employment and doing your job. Was the case for Nina's mom, right, yeah, saving someone's life, right, yeah, yeah, exactly right.

Speaker 1: 18:55

Like we never know what's going on underneath the surface unless we take the time to do that. And again, like, sometimes your intuition is right and your assumptions about people are true and there is bad intent, but most of the times it's not right. And we see this play out multiple times within the dynamics of added elementary, these interactions with parents, where, like, there's just misunderstanding or there are things that teachers are doing that is blocking connection, blocking communication. But there are lots of ways that, as a teacher, as somebody who is working in the school, right, we can think about the ways that one we can be giving people the benefit of the doubt and think about other ways to communicate. And I'm not saying that Janine hasn't tried and I'm not saying that Janine is like a bad teacher or like Janine is flawed just because she had, like this one moment right, but it's something that we want to be conscious of as we keep going and interacting with people in our day-to-day lives out even outside of the workplace.

Speaker 3: 19:54

Yeah, I mean, I guess one of the things that I would say, just to follow up to kind of what you're saying, is that, like, are there gonna be parents out there? Are they're gonna be? Are there going to be times in which my intuition will be wrong? Are there gonna be times in which, like, a parent is totally BSing me and they're at the bar as opposed to like coming to, like meet with me or, you know, playing video games? Sure, and also as a student of abolition, like I think that the most apt people to take care of children is their parents in most cases. Obviously, in some cases, children are born into situations where parents should have no business having children, but in most cases, I think that, yeah, I want, I want to keep, I want to keep that one of the core assumptions of RJ right, like that people want to do good, people want to be good. I want to keep that hope alive. I don't often believe it, like I don't actually believe that everybody wants to be good all the time, but I want to live in a world, in this abolitionist world, in which that is a main truth of the world, right?

Speaker 3: 21:08

And, to be honest, I think that you and I were talking a little while ago, like in production, about this idea. Like you know, I think that's so much around teaching and so much around being in schools and so much around like that relationship building between families and teachers. I mean it is a performance. Like schools are a performance. It is a place where I have to perform, like one of my mentors, dr Chris Emman, talks a lot about like if you're following the lesson plan toa T, you're reading a script, you're an actor, you're not a teacher, and I super, super agree with that. And also, at the same time, like I think, relationship building, especially in places like schools, where, like, there is a transactional space there's, I have to perform like they're like I can't just be, I can't wow loud on a parent, you know like I cannot be frustrated or a parent and just like call them out on it, because it is, it is my duty and also I'm paid by the state to serve a family and so it's actually my job to hold space and not, like the customer is always right or the parents always right, but it is my duty to really hold the space, and one of the cool things seeing that episode was that Janine was like you cannot be your best self all the time. Sometimes you're just literally your worst self, or sometimes you're just tired, or you also got, like in her case, right, like she got triggered by her own experiences with her mom, right, and that shows up Like I cannot leave those things. Like a lot of times, people are like, oh, leave your things at the door, like I can't.

Speaker 3: 22:55

I'm a human being and so I really appreciate it seeing that as part of this character development, which is a very honest part of how a situation like that might go in school, and then, like I don't know how far into it, like seconds later in the scene, she takes accountability and she's like yo, my bad, like this actually is not about you, like I'm going through something, let's start over which is really hard to do, you know, for those of us who have had to do it, it's really uncomfortable. We really have to be like I am so sorry, I really was out of line. Like let me please start over. I really want this to go better.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Again, really sorry for what I said. It wasn't about you, it was about me. I understand, just had some experience with parents who aren't really there when their kids need them to be, but obviously that isn't you.

Speaker 1: 23:53

Yeah, it's a really, really vulnerable thing, and both the admitting that you're wrong and explaining why and letting people into why. But, like, it's such an important thing to acknowledge that. Like, hey, I am a human too On the other side, trying to do my best for your student, your child, right, like, yes, I play the role I put on the performance as teacher, but I'm also a human who cares about this community, who cares about the wellbeing of children, and I need you to see me in my efforts in doing that. And, yeah, I'm not always gonna get it right. But what is the way that we can do this together? Again, building strengthening relationships?

Speaker 1: 24:31

Right, janine came in like trying to go to repair first, like, we have this problem. You haven't been here. Why haven't you XYZ, right, without, like, acknowledging the struggle, acknowledging what was going on for her, and so like, even as we're thinking about like facilitating restorative processes, like checking yourself is such an important part of that. Right, what is the energy that you're carrying into that space? And what is the energy, or, like, what are the things that are in your past that you're bringing into that space, that, like, are yours and not having anything to do with the situation right. It's a really important thing to acknowledge to yourself and maybe sometimes, like you, might not be the right person to engage in that conversation. I think in this case it was appropriate, but I think it's also appropriate for Janine to have shared what she shared, especially after she made the mistakes that she made, going off the on the parent like she did.

Speaker 3: 25:25

Yeah, 100% right. Yeah, for sure. I think that that was an appropriate way and also I think it was a nice humanizing way. It was just a humanizing way of seeing how that experience could go. You know, I actually before that, before watching the thing, the first couple of seconds, when the parent arrived late, I was like, oh no, I bet Janine's just gonna be like, oh, this event went until eight. It's eight 30. I'm sorry I can't see you, but let's book another time. I know things happen. Oh my gosh, you're so great. You're like, you know we're gonna help your son out, your kid out. Let's do it tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 26:13

And there's a version of that which is like admirable and saying like hey, boundaries, as a teacher, this was the thing. I'm going home. We can find another time. No hard feelings.

Speaker 3: 26:24

But she doesn't know those yet because she's such a new teacher and the world of teaching, right Like teacher education programs, the messages that we as new teachers get are that, like, we are heroes and that, like we are, we have to prepare. Like after teaching, we stay in the school until 10 pm and then we don't drink, don't eat, just lesson plan, lesson plan, lesson plan, lesson plan. You, you know, it's like photosynthesis, but instead of like light, it's just like lesson plans, ink. And so one yeah, it's gonna be really interesting to me to see in the next seasons, right Like, how that character develops as a teacher would develop. Right, like, yeah, cause Janine has no boundary, like there's no boundary, and I'm gonna, like, raise my hand. Actually, let me raise my left hand.

Speaker 3: 27:22

Leftist activists in Latin America said that you always deal with your left hand, cause that's where your heart is. I'm gonna say, like you know, boundary setting is one of the hardest parts for me as an educator, 17 years in, you know. Because, yeah, like, yeah, boundary setting. I think it's so deep that that's a theme that we can see at the very beginning. But I agree with you, like, I wanna see the scene, the director's cut, in which she's like I'm going home goodbye.

Speaker 1: 28:00

This isn't about like critiquing production choices or story choices, but there are lots of ways that that situation could have been handled historically and I think you know what she ends up doing is a right choice, but like that's not the only way that that could have happened. The other thing that you know is at play here is the dynamic that's going on between Barb and her daughter. Right, like her daughter decided that like hey, I'm gonna go spend this time yes, it's on my work trip with my mom and her mom is not having it. Like this is not good enough. This is just a side thing for you. You're not really message and I don't even approve of what you're doing for work. As you were watching this dynamic play out, what came up as you were yeah, what came up for you?

Speaker 3: 28:48

You know, I am one of the lucky ones in which my mom died when I was young but, like my dad really, really, really rocked with me. It was a really hard decision for him to allow me to be a musician as opposed to being a businessman, which is what he really wanted for me. Hi dad, my dad also passed away. I would have decimated like every single business because I'm a terrible businessman. So it's good that I didn't become a businessman. So I'm one of the lucky folks who, like I, didn't have that relationship in my own background but I have seen so many love people in my communities, people in my like teaching communities and my friendship that have that relationship with their parents right, and I also, to be honest, I see that relationship, that toxicity in relationship, happened between teachers and students right, where there's nothing that a student can do that is good enough to please you, right. Yeah, there's nothing and you know, not everybody, but most students really wanna please their teachers. It's like most students like they're like yo, I like that's been my experience. It's like kids, when kids like you, they wanna learn. But in my own life, like I always wanted to please my elders, not in like a people pleaser way, but because you wanna make happy the people that love you and that you love, right, and so that relationship was very complex. To me it's a little foreign because I can't identify myself, but I can empathize with it and I've seen it play out in other spaces. I mean, I just also think that there are parts of it, because of my positionality, that I can't understand. You know, like I am not, like I'm not a very I'm Jewish, but I'm not a religious person, so I like I don't know what it might feel like to like have a parent that like really wants you to be done with the Lord and that you end up working in moves. You know, like I am a white cis Latino. You know I'm not a black woman, and so there are parts of it that that scene as I watched, I it's like I know what that is right and I see it, and also I see the complexities, like I don't want to pass judgment on it, because I also know that like they're like the generations before us. It just it was a different time as well, right, like, and so I always want to be careful when discussing themes like there are across historical timelines, even if it's just like the, the previous generation, that like position, those in the times in which that was happening.

Speaker 3: 31:42

You know, I think that, like for Barbara, you know, I think, maybe, like growing up in the seventies and maybe sixties, like I think that was, that that's just how things were. I'm not saying they were right or wrong, but so shy or told, wise like society, wise like I, you know, I think that culture, really that's just what it was. So it's a really I would say that it's, it's a I. I'm sitting with those complexities of like what am I feeling? Like to want to have a daughter, to be something, and then your daughter is completely else and you have no way of affecting that.

Speaker 1: 32:25

Yeah, and, you know, not necessarily asking you to put yourself in the shoes of, like two black women, but think, even thinking about the dynamics of like building, strengthening, repairing relationships, right, barbara and her daughter, taylor, have like a strange relationship because of the seeming lack of shared values and ways that they agree that, like Taylor should be living her life. And that's, if those values are something that you want to stand on, to the point of cutting somebody out of your life or like ridiculing them or, you know, expressing this pleasure for them and not living up to those things like cool, stand on those. And if you value the relationship above everything else, what are the things within the context of your relationship that you're willing to concede? What are the values that you are willing to I wouldn't even say compromise, but like maybe tolerate from somebody else.

Speaker 1: 33:17

Like you don't have to believe what I believe for me to love you, right, you don't have to do the things that I want you to do in the world for me to love you, right, and I'm speaking as the parent of, you know, a very, very young one, but I'm also speaking as the son of parents who believe very different things about the world, right, and, like I know, within the context of our relationship, we don't see eye to eye about a lot of things in the world, but there is love and acceptance from my parents and support from in a lot of different ways.

Speaker 1: 33:48

Similar to you, my parents may be questioned some of the things that I did, but it was never like this disapproval or shaming, for you know, living my life, doing the work that I wanted to do, whether this is a parent, child, student, teacher or, you know, whoever it is in your life where we have these expectations of people that just aren't being met. Like I think it's really important for us to think about what's more important our value or the thing that we wanna see happen in the world, or the relationship with the person in front of us? And, you know, if it's the relationship, we gotta meet people where they're at.

Speaker 3: 34:24

Yeah, I guess hearing you say this like is really making me think about. There's also layers right, especially between relationships between, like parents and offspring, uncles, aunts, like familiar relationship like kinship. There's also layers right Like. One of the things that I appreciate it is like Taylor and Barbara. They're still in relationship. It's a complicated relationship full of rubs right Like, but they're still in relationship Like Taylor is still coming, barbara is not like no, you're not coming to my job. Like I'm not seeing you. If you don't spend three days with me, don't come.

Speaker 3: 35:05

And there's so many folks who don't have that right. There's so many folks who have been either have to cut off their families or their families have cut them off. You know, I have some family members that I don't rock with politically at all and I have some of those in which you know what. We can go and spend Passover together and be like cool, nice, hey, nice to see the kids, all good. But then I have some other family members that I really can't do that because their disagreements are either like denying or putting my or my love, people's safety in danger. Like James Baldwin says, like they're like really like denying my humanity or my people's humanity.

Speaker 3: 35:54

So I think that it's also layers, right. I think that unfortunately and I think that that's just one of the truths of the world is that, like, sometimes conflicts don't have a resolution. There's some conflicts in the world that just like we have to sit with and we have to just learn to live with that pain. But the relationship between Barbara and Taylor gives me hope. I wanna see kinda how it develops, because it's a very common relationship rub to have, right. And yeah, although their values don't seem to be aligning some things, they also have that connection. They're both of both open to keep exploring it or keep struggling together, right.

Speaker 1: 36:40

Like yeah Within the context of this relationship. This isn't about like the worthiness of human life or the validity of someone's personhood right. It is about faith and like career choices.

Speaker 3: 36:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:54

And right, and you know, spend more time with your mom, which, like, is something that is a little less difficult to navigate than you know. Maybe some of the like politically charged issues of our day, which you know we're not gonna get into right now, yeah, yeah but within the context of you know what most of us are navigating on the everyday, like.

Speaker 1: 37:16

We do have those relationships where there's not 100% alignment and you know the relationship is more important. We do have like some level of foundation of relationship that's there and the way to move forward is meeting people where they're at, even if it's not necessarily 100% where you are, and you know, hoping for continued connection, hoping for continued relationships so you can continue to build, which you know, in the case of this, does happen. But we won't get to that until future episodes. As we said, there were lots of other things that were going on on this episode that we're not necessarily gonna tie up, but I did wanna highlight, you know, jeanine and Barbara coming back together. At the end We'll be waiting.

Speaker 2: 37:56

Maybe there won't be. I mean, I know I'm hungry. Have a good night and be safe. Bye, I'll pick you, I'll pick you, okay. Okay, well, looks like your work mom is free. How about dinner? Is this really happening? Okay, sorry, black all Jeanine, I would love that. Come on, okay. So how did the conversation go with the parent? Oh, you know what?

Speaker 1: 38:30

It's surprisingly well, you know, jeanine trying to continue to get into Barb's good graces as a mentee and surrogate daughter. But you know, as you saw them wrap up that part of the story, what was in mind for you.

Speaker 3: 38:48

So that actually was a part that really hit me the hardest. I don't wanna speak for other people, but for me I have had this happen to me and also I've seen it in different iterations in schooling where I have had either students or younger teachers really, really, really I don't wanna say like push themselves onto like a mentee relationship with me or with other people that I've seen. But I've also been that person who has like been oh my gosh, like I. Really the thing that I want the most in my life is to be loved by you and be mentored by you, and I've been lucky enough to have that relationship with students in which I'm a mentor, and also with old coworkers and all educators in which they mentor me, and I even think that my students mentor me, like we have a dual relationship right, like this mentorship earlier in our year and now we're talking about like, this idea of like yeah, I mean Jeanine is super pushy with like, please love me, please mentor me. I wanna be your school mother, your school daughter. I'm your school daughter and Barbara is sort of like, oh, like a cat, you know, like come on, but having been like coming from a tradition of like jazz musicians.

Speaker 3: 40:09

Like one of my old mentors, like a jazz drummer, he was the kind of person that he would do this like not mean things, but like pretty harsh and pretty.

Speaker 3: 40:20

Like no, no, no. Like he put all these boundaries Like if I didn't practice enough to his liking, he'd like send me home like five minutes into the lesson and I had to like walk for like an hour and 15 minutes because I didn't have a car. He'd be like, come back when you practice again, and then the next week I will come and he'll be like, great, you practice or whatever, and then we'd have like a three hour long lesson as opposed to an hour. And so then coming back together where Barbara is like, say, let's go to dinner, to me is like I read that as like Barbara's into it. Barbara is into that mentorship relationship, even though, like I think for most of the time it's like this is too much or like you're doing too much or you know, putting all these like old school boundaries and yeah. So that was really a beautiful way of ending that episode, bringing closure, but also it's I think it's a very real way.

Speaker 1: 41:23

I have seen that play out you know, yeah, I mean, and this is a continuing evolving relationship between the two of them and, you know, over the course of the rest of the season going on into next, we see, you know, the way that Barbara grows, the way that like this actually does in some ways serve a need for Barbara. I think this does just speak to the like ever growing, the evolving relationship that people have within the context of their relationships, either with coworkers or people in their lives. Right, having connected on something that was vulnerable like this is a point of like hey, we can, we're on another level, we understand each other in a deeper way, and it just leads to more opportunities to connect and grow the relationship. Right, while Barbara might not have the daughter of her dreams, jeanine is feeling like some kind of need in that area, like where she feels wanted, and I'm not putting a value judgment on that, it's just, you know, people meeting each other where they're at, in efforts to again build strength in and repair, when necessary, relationships. Ooh, so much good in this episode.

Speaker 1: 42:37

You've heard from us. Now we want to hear from you. Drop your restorative justice reflections in the comments and if you want to join a live community conversation about our restorative justice lessons from Abba Elementary. Join us for a live event on Monday, july 31st. Link with more info in the description. Just want to get to some of the quick questions that everyone answers when they come on this podcast. If you were to be cast as a character on Abba Elementary, what role would you want to play or who would you want to be at the school?

Speaker 3: 43:07

Can it be a new character?

Speaker 1: 43:09

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 43:09

Yeah, you know, it would just have to be a version of, like Jack Black's like School of Rock, like I mean, it would just have to be like a we are going like we're going to tear it down, we're going to go, and you know like it'll have to be that like high energy, like rock and roll, like free improv, like wild music teacher who's also just like a pocket full of snacks for everybody, like being like, you know, like the classes and the place to like really like, like that. I think that one. Yeah, it would just be like the let's have fun all the time, let's learn, let's connect with each other. Let's also like talk about some real things. I think that my character has already been written and I think Jack Black is it. I can imagine a character like that playing well in Abba Elementary and you know, in the end of episode 10, we see Abba's beat maker machine and DJ board. So you know it can get some more use.

Speaker 1: 44:20

Farron, Farron, beautiful. Thank you so much, Martine, for being here. How can people support you and your work in the ways that you want to be supported? Thanks so much.

Speaker 3: 44:30

And, yeah, thanks for having me Ways in which I'd be contacted and supported. My website is martineurbachcom. I also facilitate a group of youth restorative justice practitioners and leaders and we're called the Circle Keepers. You can reach us at thecirclekeeperscom. Our Instagrams are the Circle Keepers. My own Instagram is at Liberation Drumps and I have a link tree where you can get a lot of different resources they you can also donate to support youth programming in social justice and restorative justice and that is link tree. I think it is linktree slash Circle Keepers.

Speaker 1: 45:12

Beautiful, and all that will be linked up again. Thank you so much for being on restorative justice reflections. We'll be back very soon breaking down episode 11 of Abba, Elementary season one. Can't wait until then. Take care.