Abbott Elementary S1E7 "Art Teacher" w/ Alisha Mernick (Restorative Justice Reflections)

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How can you use Restorative Justice to bring quality arts education, hold power with people instead of over, and more? Find out on this episode of Restorative Justice Reflections!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Heyo, david, here. Restored of Justice Reflections was created as a video first medium because we're including video clips from the shows we're talking about. You can still hear our full conversation here with the audio from the clip, but for the full experience and to see our beautiful faces, head over to our YouTube page link below. If you're only going podcasts or your thing, please bear with the mentions of video and clips and use your imagination. Enjoy. We're doing the money plates like we've always done, and that's the end of the discussion. Janine, get your girl and tell her to watch out, because you don't know who you're messing with. Welcome back to Restored of Justice Reflections.

Speaker 1: 0:48

I'm David, ryan, barcaga, castro, harris all five names for all the ancestors and today I'm here with Alicia Maneucia-Renek to dive deep into the restorative themes, or lack thereof, found in season one, episode seven of ABC's Abba Elementary Art Teacher.

Speaker 1: 1:01

As always, our conversation here is not a critique of the story or production choices of the creators, but we will highlight how Restored of Justice can apply to situations like bringing quality arts education into schools and also collaborating to hold power with people instead of having power over them. Hopefully, this will give you some insight about how to apply restorative ways of being into your life in and out of the classroom. If you want to take a deeper look at applying Restored of Justice to your life, join our Inner Circle community to connect with RJ-minded individuals and get bonus content. Deepen your practice by checking out our courses and if you want to see this work in your school or organization, invite us for coaching or training on implementing this work. Of course, links to everything down below. Now let's get to it. Alicia, thank you so much for being here. Introduce yourself in the way that you want to be known by our audience.

Speaker 2: 1:46

Sure, thanks for having me, david. This is a really fun idea for a podcast. So I'm Alicia Manushmurnik. I am an art educator, community organizer, activist in the equity world, and I love watching Abba Elementary.

Speaker 1: 2:05

You know, and when I was thinking about doing this podcast as a whole, thinking about this episode specifically, you know, you're an intersection of being an organizer, activist and being an art educator. In so many ways, you're the perfect person to be having this conversation. So when I reached out, what was it about this episode that made you be like, yes, this, let's do it on a high level?

Speaker 2: 2:30

On a high level. Yeah, just how much of a missed opportunity their approach to art education is. You know because when I was watching it, that's where my mind goes is what a real tragedy. A lot of what we see is in arts education in public schools, but in this episode in particular, a lot stood out. A lot stood out that I think relates to restorative justice themes. So it's going to be a good dive.

Speaker 1: 3:04

Yeah, and you know we really appreciate Abba Elementary, not for showing, like this, polyannish version of schools, of course, like so much of what they do is reductive because it's a 21 minute sitcom, but like it does get to highlight a lot of the issues and a lot of the things that we would like to see change within the context of our schools. So let's get into the summary of this episode, the A plot of courses with the art teacher. When the school art teacher retires, janine's college friend Sahar is hired as the school's new volunteer art teacher. Sahar and Melissa disagree over the Peter Rabbit project that had that Melissa has historically been doing, and although Janine agrees with Melissa, she finds it hard to turn down Sahar's ideas. Once Sahar makes an impressive art piece using the books that Melissa bought as paper mache, janine finally stands up to her.

Speaker 1: 3:54

In the B plot, which we'll get to later, disappointing the lack of vegetables in the school's lunches, jacob convinces Barbara that they should start a school garden, despite having very little experience doing so, and Gregory secretly tends to the garden so they can make sure that it thrives. So a lot to unpack here, but let's start with Sahar and Janine. Hey, my friend Sahar is starting, so when I heard we needed a new volunteer art teacher, I called my friend Sahar.

Speaker 2: 4:21

She's a successful local artist and she's so cool. Janine, oh my God. Sahar, oh she French. Good morning everyone. I'm Sahar.

Speaker 1: 4:33

You know, like we know, the landscape of arts in schools is dire and that's very well represented here in Abba Eleanorgy. But as you were seeing the storyline play out, what came up for you?

Speaker 2: 4:47

Oh God. So one is like both the teacher who's retiring and this college friend that are coming in. These are both volunteer teachers. There's no one on staff, there's no one who has an education background who is teaching art in this school, and so the kinds of art that they're bringing in are not achieving what quality arts education can actually do for kids. So one it's like underlining this systemic issue. I really love Abba Elementary for the same reason. It's like every comedy is actually based on some tragedy, right, some real tragedy, and they introduce in a way that's educating the audience, you know, in this kind of like palatable, entertaining, loving way. So in this one, like the, it's just so quick, it was so quickly mentioned that like these are both volunteers I think is huge.

Speaker 2: 5:45

The way that art is being taught in, as illustrated by this project, is not accomplishing the real goals and outcomes of quality art set. And so all jump into what that really means and how it relates to restorative justice. Art education is an exercise in empathy, right. It's an opportunity for socio-emotional learning. It's an opportunity for students to learn critical problem solving, and all of these skills ultimately improve community, improve relationships, improve our own awareness of our feelings, our ability to communicate those feelings and even just interpreting a work of art. It's like you're practicing looking at someone else's communication and interpreting that and understanding the emotional undercurrents beneath it. All of that is really good for supporting the goals of RJ, but none of that is happening in the kinds of art we see in this episode.

Speaker 1: 6:53

Yeah, or in a lot of art that is happening across lots of schools and so when we have a radical, community-based artivist come in to do this work, right, she has a very different set of priorities than the second grade teachers have. Like, hey, let's create cute bunnies so our kids can take them home and we can have something that we can all laugh, smile and bond over because it's cute. Versus like let's teach them the subversive ways that capitalism has built these entrenched systems of education. And like kept you down and kept your mind trapped. Most people just think of it as a story about a rabbit who steals carrots.

Speaker 2: 7:39

But we're not like most people. We see subtext. It's a story about domesticity and capitalism.

Speaker 1: 7:45

Right and like. Neither of those things are inherently bad right.

Speaker 2: 7:50

Whoa? No, not at all. And I love Janine sums it up. She says, sahar, like this project is about kids practicing fine motor skills, right, in a creative way, like that's her vision of the goal of that. And then Sahar is coming in and her, her vision is elevated, right and like Melissa. I love when Melissa calls her little miss MoMA. Right, because her vision of this project is elevated, because that's how she views art. Right, it underlines this, this classism problem that art has in this country.

Speaker 2: 8:30

This, this hierarchy of, like, fine arts versus craft, is highlighted here and in a way that's insulting Melissa for wanting to do a craft with the kids. There's nothing wrong with doing a craft with the kids. There's nothing wrong with with engaging the kids and helping you make this installation project. But neither of these approaches has anything to do with creative expression from kids. The kids have no say in what is about to be made. So what are they really learning? They're learning to follow directions. Right, like even Sahar's vision of radical anti-capitalist transformation and using the past to propel us forward. Even that is just getting kids to be her worker bees for her vision.

Speaker 1: 9:17

Right, right, like it's almost this like thing that she gets to put in her portfolio, or like, hey, I use the labor of these little second graders to, like, create this wonderful thing. Look at me using the resources, extracting value from the resources that, like you know, melissa put in right when she's using the paper mache out of, like the books that Melissa bought with, you know, her own money and, like you know, that's a whole nother dynamic that gets addressed across the show right Without her consent.

Speaker 1: 9:49

Right For Sahar. Right, it's all about Sahar. It's not really about, like, making free thinkers. It's like hey, do your bunny thing and then like help me paper mache this. It was like I would have been interested to see, like the process of Sahar having the kids help, like we don't know how much they contributed to that. Did Sahar just do that on her own, like bringing her other friends to like make that look pretty and then like, okay, kids, do your bunny thing, color the bunnies however you want them to be colored right, lots of levels and like the. What you're saying about the choice being taken away from the kids who like this is supposed to be about was totally missed.

Speaker 2: 10:33

And I think you know this is smooth segue into our you know the second thing that I want to talk about, which is this idea that stakeholders are not consulted throughout the episode, and in this particular instance, it's the kids, right Like. The kids should have a voice in what they want to make, what they want to do with the school, even if they're doing the installation. They should have had some hand in the ideation process and the brainstorming process. We don't get to see any of that. They are purely just workers following directions.

Speaker 1: 11:08

Right, right, and you know again limits of a 21 minute TV show. I wonder if, like on the in the extended cut, there were those moments where we got to see them creatively brainstorming what we want this landscape to look like, right?

Speaker 2: 11:22

You know, with Sahar, I don't know, I don't know if she would be up for that.

Speaker 1: 11:27

For sure, for sure, but, like you were saying, as as a segue, right, if you're appreciating this video, like to help us in the YouTube algorithm. Subscribe so you won't miss the video, and share it with someone to help us further amplify this work. Now back to the show. On the B side of this episode, we have a situation where Barbara and Jacob are really dissatisfied with school lunches, as, like you know, arguably justifiably so, and you know, jacob and Barbara approach Devon, the cafeteria worker, about like yo, what can we do about this? Like, how can we make this better? I believe this is what they're serving the children, jacob and I are starting a garden to grow some vegetables for the students In the magical timeline of you know a TV show.

Speaker 1: 12:18

somehow they were able to produce one little zucchini after you know a day's work in you know in a community garden that they had set up right Building boxes, planting all of that.

Speaker 2: 12:31

Even calling it a community garden is hilarious. It was literally the two of them. So again it's like that same issue of why are you making the garden? Why are you really making this garden? Is it to teach the kids about gardening? Are we giving them this lifelong skill? Are we? You know they're not engaging anyone else in the process?

Speaker 1: 12:52

And doing it very badly. Right, because Gregory's the one who is ending up like saving the garden. You know we see how that plays out like much farther down the line. But you know their hearts are in the right place, their hearts, they have good intentions, right, and you know, just like Sahar, just like Melissa, in these circumstances, right, people want what is, quote, unquote, best for the kids, right, but how do we go about getting there? Right, this lack of input from stakeholders, right, is so present, right, and so you have people taking paternalistic, savior mentality routes to getting to achieve their goals and, like, we have like pretty poor results, even when, like Jacob goes and like hey, I know that our garden isn't producing everything that needs to right now, and brings a whole tray of like zucchini prepared from his home to school. Like, hey, you can feed this to the kid like Devon's immediately. Like, what are you doing? Right, we can't serve this year I think there is a harmful way that this phrase can be used but like, stay in your lane.

Speaker 1: 14:08

Right, there is. If you don't know what you're talking about, if you don't know what you're doing, like, don't waste your efforts doing something that is someone else's job, someone else's expertise. If you want to like share your, If you want to invest and share and like work together with folks you know, approach it from the like, you know, what can we do to make it better? Like, how can I support you and the thing that you do? Yeah, like every day, right, like Devin's not coming in to Jacob's classroom and saying, like this is how you teach history.

Speaker 2: 14:45

But it's, I mean it's clear just in.

Speaker 2: 14:49

He's you know, he throws it out and he says it's a health code violation, like this very basic Content knowledge, because food is content this content, knowledge that Barbara and Jacob don't have and they could have had if they had collaborated and Facilitated this project, as opposed to just leading it. Because stay in your lane, you're right. It's like one of these kind of loaded phrases because it is okay to go into somebody else's lane if you're behind them, right, or if you're alongside them, but when you're walking up front and telling other people to follow you and not consulting and Not involving all of the funds of knowledge Within that person, like it's, it is saviorist, you know it's, it's icky.

Speaker 1: 15:36

Yeah, and you know, we hear Barb say like you know, I pulled the Janine right and Janine's like the way that Janine has been represented across this show is like hey, I'm gonna fix it, I'm gonna save it right, I'm gonna make the situation better, even though I might not have like the best expertise. Like at least I'm gonna do something Right. And like that's not quite her journey through this episode, like Barb is able to recognize that and herself and be like you know what? Like Like this was this was not right. There were better ways to go about this. Yeah, once these plants start blooming, we're gonna be swimming in squash, and then what we prepared them.

Speaker 2: 16:18

We do not have time. We barely getting by as is. Y'all can make believe on your own time. So Not the reaction I was hoping for. Devon's right, we're being foolish Barbara.

Speaker 1: 16:33

I cannot believe that I let myself get carried away projects like this. They do not work in public schools.

Speaker 2: 16:41

I Pulled it. Janine, yeah, for sure, and I. Her response, though, is it's very fatalist. It's it's this would be a great response. It's it's this would never work in a public school, right. And she is this contrast to Janine, who is always hopeful, but in this kind of naive, unprepared, unknowing way, and I think what both of Both of them are missing is that there is a path forward. It just it needs to involve everybody and drawn everyone's skills and knowledges. And you know, this is this is where, like then, the community organizer and me is like we could have turned this into an issue, right, we could have organized around this, we could have involved kids and families, etc in nutrition, but none of that was done because they did just decide like oh well, we can fix this. And you're right, it's it is pulling a Janine because she does the same thing. It's it's I know how to fix this. I'm gonna go above and beyond, you know, bless her heart, but it is rarely successful right, and you know these things Take time right.

Speaker 1: 17:55

Anything that you're trying to do to like implement community change, for example, like implement restorative justice practices right, it can't just to be One person saying like this is the way that things are gonna be now and I'm gonna be the person who's going to run all the peace circles, teach everyone about restorative justice, build, like our school Agreements, guidelines, like by myself. Right, you've got to take Collaborative approaches to all those things. Of course you as an individual can model those behaviors right and invite people to participate in those with you and sometimes, depending on where you're situated within the hierarchy or Political power in your environment, like that might be the only thing that you can do. Right. But if you're trying to Make this a community thing, roll it out school right. Like how are people educated about?

Speaker 1: 18:50

what you're actually trying to do right. There's so much confusion about what restorative justice is people think it's super permissive.

Speaker 1: 18:56

It's just people talking and like, no consequences coming down, right? So, like, how are we making sure that people fully understand what we're meaning when we're saying restorative justice? And then how are we inviting people in to participate in the process? Right, it's not something that can just be rolled out as program. Right, you can look up the policies and handbooks and guides that you know lots of schools or lots of school districts have implemented, but that's not necessarily gonna be the thing that is relevant to your school. Right, you have to understand the frameworks in your community, has to understand the vision for it, so y'all can work together to make it sustainable. Otherwise, as soon as you leave that school, as soon as you leave that environment, that's gonna go with you. Right, you know Barb and Jacob.

Speaker 1: 19:41

Right, you're saying it's not a community garden, it's a Barb, jacob in like let's be honest Gregory garden, which, like, is not in itself a bad thing. But like, what is the legacy of that project that you want to leave? Right? Like, what is the purpose of this if it's to Get, like, more vegetables at school? Like there are less labor intensive ways of doing that? Right, or Is it about, you know, teaching kids about gardening. Well, the approach that you're going about, that is, is not that at all Right. So being clear about, like, what you're trying to achieve and then involving community to make us sustainable is so important and, like you know, organizing principles 101 yeah, and I you know it's.

Speaker 2: 20:26

It's you want to build an org that can exist without you, right, and that takes buy-in.

Speaker 2: 20:35

Yeah and buy-in is not something you can force from people. Buy-in is not something you can educate into people. Buy-in only comes when everybody involved participates in the ideation and coming up with the idea, when coming up with the solution, right? So I think this is. It goes back to the Sahar thing. It's like she came in with her vision of how to fix this perceived problem and, of course, there was no buy-in because it was only her idea. So I just I have to bring it back to Arts Ed, right, because so much of what art education is really trying to do is to teach creative problem solving.

Speaker 2: 21:16

You make an artwork doesn't look good at first. You have to look at it, analyze it, figure it out, work with it, revise it, refine it, get feedback. You critique, make adjustments, present it again, right? So it's about this process of almost like a design cycle of revision and feedback from peers, and those are skills that you develop over years and years of practicing. The arts neurons that fire together, wire together. It takes practice, and so if you have a strong arts education, you are better able to go into a community and almost wing it. It's like you are playing improv, right, you are looking at all the pieces. You are analyzing the problem in this holistic way and you were coming up with a creative solution. In community, just like in an arts room where there's critique, you're working with multiple people to decide what the best path forward is. So these skills really translate.

Speaker 1: 22:21

They really translate. It's not about like, hey, what is the brush stroke, what is the material that you're using, which are important things to know, right, and the application of that is so important, right? Similarly, like, hey, can you ask these sets of restorative questions? Right? Can you set up a circle? Absolutely, can you do that in a way that is appropriate for the needs of your community? That takes practice right, that takes an inherent to practice is like messing it up, learning to do better, and whether it's art education or whether it's restorative justice, practice, we're trying to help people embody these ways of being, these frameworks, these mindsets, rather than just techniques and practices. It's a time investment, right.

Speaker 1: 23:16

And not everyone is ready to do that. But if we're not ready to do that, I do think it is nice that they did that cool art installation. But what is the cost? Well, at what cost? Right, it is nice that you can have a circle and then, as a one-and-done thing, or introduce restorative justice practices as a thing that we'll do on special occasions, but what is the impact of that? Are you messaging to people that restorative justice can only be done in this particular way, in this particular set of circumstances, by a particular person? It only happens when Mr So-and-so and Ms So-and-so or whoever person, is the restorative justice coordinator or is it something that is integrated into the way that you, as a community, move and within the context of schools? I think what I'm left asking you is in your experience, how has this been done? Well, whether it's a restorative justice or arts education, but these things that aren't heavily prioritized in mainstream education, but it's time allotment, but how have you seen it done well?

Speaker 2: 24:25

Yeah, I think with arts and with justice, which I really I even think of it in my classroom, just as relationship right, it's community and relationship I think that they really are connected. I think that they work very, very well together art and relationship, art and community Because when I think of quality arts, it always has some kind of personal expression, it always has some kind of opinion. Students are creating artworks that are reflecting and attempting to shape the world around them. So they are paying attention to the news, to current events, to the school community, to issues in the school community, and they are creating works of art about those things. Conceptual works of art. Yes, there's technique. Yes, there's material. Yes, I'm actually teaching them how to make art Also, but every work of art is expressive in this way. That is socially engaged, right.

Speaker 2: 25:29

And then we have critique days where students all get up and they talk about their work and they give each other advice and suggestions, but they also respond to the messages in each other's work. So what this does is this opens up a space for conversations about social justice issue, racial justice issues, gender and sexuality and identity, but also about issues at the school. So I have had students make artworks that are about sexist dress code at the school and then it sparks this classroom conversation that then turns into this organizing moment where students are then what are we going to do? And they're coming up with it together. I'm the facilitator, I'm asking questions, I'm asking follow-ups, I'm asking who wants to respond to this. What do we think of this? I'm charting it on the board but it's not my ideas ever. But we have very often seen artworks about an issue translate into petitions or requests for meetings with the principal or getting parents involved in something the arts spark. They create space for social engagement and organizing.

Speaker 2: 26:40

They also, through all of this collaboration, really improve the relationships of the kids in that classroom. They all know each other, they know their opinions. They've got practiced debating social justice issues in the classroom in a kind, polite and academic way. They learn the language to disagree in a respectful way just by discussing the artwork about those issues. So I think it really develops relationship skills. It develops the sense of knowing each other and knowing who each of your peers are in the classroom.

Speaker 2: 27:19

I love this moment where, like Sahar sorry back to the episode, but like Sahar is trying to make this point about like how you know, jeanine, why'd you get into the system right? Did you take this job so that you could be part of the system or because you wanted to inspire what's your name, bria students like Bria and her friends to be the next generation of free thinkers? So it's just so on the nose of like you don't even know these kids, you don't even know their names, like this is why I'm saying I don't think there's a behind the scenes. The kids were involved in the creative process. Sahar doesn't even know these kids' names, right? So relationship and knowing each other and knowing who the people in your classroom are is so foundational to any other kind of you know justice work that you want to try to do.

Speaker 1: 28:15

You know, we've seen like the way that this like is not practiced Well, the way that this doesn't play out well and like. I think it's pretty representative of some things that may happen in schools across the country. But how have you seen arts education done well, like on a school level, cause I imagine in your classrooms, of course right, but like on a school level, like? How have you seen arts education executed and valued well?

Speaker 2: 28:38

Oh gosh, you complicated by saying on a school level yeah, cause I have never really worked at a public school that has had more than a single arts teacher, so already there's this isolation happening. But what I have seen done well is the more contemporary approach to art. Education in general is leaps and bounds more effective than this cookie cutter kind of art we're seeing. Melissa propose where it's, I make the model and you all make a version of this right.

Speaker 2: 29:20

Contemporary art education is much more about teaching the creative process. So we're teaching kids, we're giving them some prompt, and by prompt I mean we're showing them artworks, we're showing them articles, we're showing them news clips, whatever it is. You're prompting the kids. You're guiding them through the ideation process thumb nailing, sketching. You're guiding them through the peer formative critique process, which means showing it to a peer, getting feedback, problem solving together, and then you're guiding them through the techniques, materials and experimentation they need to turn it into a finished work. All of that actually teaches kids how to create things and it is completely different than what Melissa was proposing, where kids are just following directions. They are creating almost like a shoe factory. They are creating copies of what they see as the model.

Speaker 1: 30:22

What's present for me and I'm gonna ask it, but it doesn't feel like the right question to ask. But is that asking too much of teachers that aren't like, specifically, art teachers?

Speaker 2: 30:32

Yes.

Speaker 1: 30:33

Okay, yes.

Speaker 2: 30:35

So, but I'm gonna piggyback on that in.

Speaker 2: 30:40

So, right now I'm lecturing at a state university and in this program, in order to be a teacher, in order to be a social worker or in order to be a early childhood education specialist meaning working at a preschool in order to do any of these education majors, you have to take a class called arts education, children's art, children's craft. You have to take one full course preparing you to be able to do this. That is not the case in most teacher preparation programs. In most teacher prep programs they're focused on those core subjects, those testable subjects right, maybe language acquisition if they're in a state like California, but for the most part they are not getting the training that is needed in order to do quality art set. It actually isn't more time intensive, it isn't any harder and a lot of ways, once you get the hang of it, it's way easier than doing one of these I make, we make you make projects, but it does take some training and some knowledge that the vast majority of our teachers don't come into the school system prepared with.

Speaker 1: 31:56

Yeah. So what is a teacher? Who doesn't? Who's sitting in a classroom, who's sitting? Who's situated in a school that doesn't have arts education funding, that doesn't have an art teacher? What are they to do with? Like all that you just shared with us, Practical suggestions. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:13

Yeah, look up the visual thinking skills. Visual thinking skills it's a Harvard Zero project. It is a quick and easy toolbox of strategies you can use, pretty much scripted, to move the kind of art teaching you're doing towards this more critical, collaborative process. There are language like discussion prompts for helping students discuss and analyze and interpret artwork, which that, of course, flexes those empathy muscles. There are prompts for students to talk about their own work so that they can flex those SEL expressive skills. There's a whole bank and this is like one of a hundred resources I wish I could, you know, recommend right now, but it's. I think it's a very, very good place to start.

Speaker 1: 33:13

Yeah, it's just that one step and of course we can link that and a bunch of other things in the show notes and description below as we bring our analysis of, you know, this episode to a close. Right we see the moments of attempted restoration, attempted repair between Melissa and Sahar, facilitated by Janine. Maybe not exactly a restorative process, but you know, janine Blusserhardt does her best. What was it about that that made you that lit you up?

Speaker 2: 33:45

I just I love when I love how poorly it goes. I guess I love how poorly it goes. I love when Melissa takes her earrings off and hands them to the kid.

Speaker 1: 34:01

Sahar.

Speaker 2: 34:03

What is this garden made of? Oh, that's the best part. It's made out of the Peter Rabbit books, misi. That says so much about the culture of the school. That says so much about her character. That was so funny. When they go into the hallway and Melissa really digs into Sahar and Janine says you know, melissa storms off and Janine says okay, so what I got from that was right you don't know who you're messing with. You know you better back up.

Speaker 1: 34:42

Sahar, we owe Melissa an apology.

Speaker 2: 34:44

Wow, I knew it. I knew you're one of them, one of who? A conductor of mediocrity and conformity. It's so cool that you worked in an underprivileged school, but now I see that you don't even care about inspiring the kids. You know what. I hate to say it, but I think you're a conventional thinker.

Speaker 2: 35:03

You know what you can get out. So it was just so funny how she tries right she tries. It's like she's probably taken one PD workshop about how to do conflict resolution and like tries to use the tools but just flops Love that. But then she actually does help, right she. She solves the issue. She finds the books to replace the ones that Melissa had to buy, and I think that that shows just how much heart she has, how how pure her intentions really are in that moment, that she really wanted to make things right with her friend.

Speaker 1: 35:47

Yeah, yeah, and I struggle with Jeanine all through the show. Listeners to the show, no right, her conflict aversion, like her need for people to be friendly, at peace, nice to each other, is so strong. Her need to people please and be the person to like, make things right, it's so strong. Like that's where we have Barb saying, like you know, I pulled the Jeanine right Because like that is you know who she shows herself to be in so much of the show. And it's an opportunity for us to reflect and think. Like you know, maybe there are some moments of this that needed like immediate de-escalation. But like what part of this conversation could have happened at a later time where cooler heads could have prevailed? What were the conversations that you could have had immediately with those folks individually, trying to figure out needs and, like you know, jeanine did a version of that. But, like in our highest version of doing this in a restorative way, there are a number of ways that it could have gone differently. But we got what we got and there is no one right way of navigating conflict or harm. But these principles of you know, asking people what they need, figuring out how the other folks in the situation were impacted right, like what's the impact on the students having witnessed their teacher, almost like throw hands with another teacher and you know all the other things, like they're more complicated factors Again, too much for a 21 minute TV show.

Speaker 1: 37:26

But you know another episode of Ava Elementary full of things to help us reflect. You've heard from us. Now we want to hear from you. Drop your restorative justice reflections in the comments and if you want to join a live community conversation about our restorative justice lessons from Ava Elementary, join us for a live event on Monday, july 31. Link with more info in the description. Before we go, there are questions that everybody answers when they come on, and so if you were pitching yourself as a character on Ava Elementary to Quinta and the writers, who would you be and what would your story arc could be like?

Speaker 2: 38:08

Oh God, I mean, I hate to say it, but I think I'd be pretty similar to Jeanine. I would be the wacky art teacher and I there is already kind of a bit that I do in my classroom of the wacky art teacher who's constantly like but what do you want to make, right, where there is this complete lack of like? There's this perception, right, there's this perception that if an art teacher is so focused on emotion and an expression and SEL that there is no technique or material content knowledge being passed. That's not true. Like, my kids make work that looks really good. You know, I think I think it's all beautiful. They think it's all beautiful. You know we work on things until they're proud of it, right?

Speaker 2: 39:01

But, I think the character that would be really charming in this show is is that character the one who's overly concerned with everyone's feelings, whose room is just total chaos, constantly covered in paint, so loud blaring music that maybe shouldn't be at a school it? I think that would be cute, and I think she'd definitely be friends with Jeanine.

Speaker 1: 39:26

Yeah, and maybe mortal enemies with Barb the way that you frame what was going on.

Speaker 2: 39:33

It would not approve of a lot of my approaches, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 39:39

Beautiful. So, from your lips to Quinta and the writer's ears, thank you so much, alicia. How and where can people support your work in the ways that you want to be supported?

Speaker 2: 39:51

Well, so, honestly, right now I'm on baby break, I've got a three year old, I've got a four month old. I'm not doing anything right now, but in a couple months I want you to check out my sub stack, which is miss mernick art. Dot. Sub stack calm, and my Instagram, which is at Miss Mernick art.

Speaker 1: 40:10

Beautiful. Of course, all of those things will be linked down below, but again, thank you so much, alicia. We'll be back with another episode analysis restorative justice reflection very soon. Until then, take care.