Abbott Elementary S1E5 "Student Transfer" w/ Derrick Carlson (Restorative Justice Reflections)

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Heyo, david here. Restored of Justice Reflections was created as a video first medium because we're including video clips from the shows we're talking about. You can still hear our full conversation here with the audio from the clip, but for the full experience and to see our beautiful faces, head over to our YouTube page link below. If you're only going podcasts or your thing, please bear with the mentions of video and clips And use your imagination. Enjoy.

Speaker 2: 0:28

That's right, nice job. That's right, nice job. Hortney, go back to your seat, but I'm done with all my work. Go, your next word is smooth, go, go, go, go, done Rubble, it's for Belle.

Speaker 1: 0:59

Welcome back to Restored of Justice Reflections. I'm David Ryan, berserker, castro, harris all five names for all the ancestors And today I'm here with Derek Carlson to dive deep into the restorative themes or lack thereof found in Season 1, episode 5 of ABC's Abba Elementary Transfer Student. As always, our conversation here is not a critique of the story or production choices of the creators, but we'll highlight how restorative justice could apply to the situations like dealing with a student with behavior issues, taking criticism and so much more. Hopefully, this will give you some insight into applying restorative justice ways of being inside and out of the classroom. If you want a deeper look into applying restorative justice to your everyday life, join our inner circle to connect with other RJ-minded folks and get bonus content.

Speaker 1: 1:43

If you want to deepen your practice, check out our courses. And if you want to see this work in your school or organization, invite us for coaching or training so we can help you implement this way of being into your community. Of course, links to everything in the description. now let's get to it. Derek, it is so good to have you here with us. How are you?

Speaker 3: 2:02

Hi, thank you for having me. It's awesome to be the leadoff and I am doing very well.

Speaker 1: 2:08

Tell us a little bit about you and the way that you show up in the world, specifically as it relates to education.

Speaker 3: 2:18

So I am currently a second grade monolingual English teacher in the Chicago land area. This is going to be my 10th year in education. I've taught gifted second grade before. I've taught kindergarten and I'm generally always been in second grade.

Speaker 3: 2:36

I think that how I show up in the world, i am assistant or black male who's adopted, and I grew up in Texas and went to the University of Oklahoma. I majored in English and French there, learned so much from my indigenous teachers about how to navigate the world and think about the world in a way that's very nonlinear And there's a lot of culturally response for practices that were going on in that time that I just didn't have the name to but I could tell I was benefiting from And for which I was benefiting. And I then got my master's in elementary education at the Paul University and I've taught in the area since and I am really just passionate about how to make work interdisciplinary and empower students and power students. They have the power and I'm actually how do I help dismantle things that are in their way as a cognitive mediator. I'm really just enjoying getting to revisit this episode. The series is really phenomenal and I'm honored to be here.

Speaker 1: 3:46

But let's get into this episode. This summary was granted to us by the plethora of editors and contributors of the wonderful Wikipedia. As we begin, we see Jeanine getting upset with Melissa, her co-teacher or partner teacher, as she's being teased over review she receives, claiming that she is an inexperienced teacher, a disruptive student named Courtney is transferred from Melissa's class to Jeanine's And Jeanine uses this as an attempt to prove her competence but eventually needs to consult Melissa for help. After hygiene exchanging of snarky comments and then eventually a deeper look into the student Courtney's background. The two come to the conclusion that Courtney is not challenged enough and needs to be moved up a grade.

Speaker 1: 4:32

And in the B story, jacob has had difficulty with some of his students who are roasting him, but with the help of Gregory, he later gets the idea to incorporate the roasting into some of his lessons. There are so many themes tangential and very directly connected to restorative justice here, whether that was collaboration versus competition, the use of humor to connect versus to divide. You know learning about somebody's background before you're going into situations. What stood out to you?

Speaker 3: 5:08

I really appreciated that there was somebody different layers incorporated in this episode. Specifically, one that stood out to me was how the competition was actually stirred by an anonymous comment And it really got to Jeanine's esteem and how she saw herself as an educator.

Speaker 2: 5:30

We have this little tradition where we read our grades for teachers reviews out loud when a new one comes in. Mine are always just incredibly flattering. Nice, but lax experience compared to the other second grade teacher at Abbott.

Speaker 4: 5:43

Hey, that's me, the other second grade teacher at Abbott.

Speaker 2: 5:46

This isn't that bad.

Speaker 3: 5:47

I think the other thing that really stood out to me was that the confidence was based upon someone who really wasn't able to have that discussion with her, that open on his vulnerable discussion. Instead it was just a comment that she let sit and it's and it was doing with in her And then that started building up some resentment toward another teacher. And that's really how these external forces and concepts and opinions can then impact how a teacher interacts, even within the school building. So it was kind of it really stood out to me that something so external impacted Janine at such a deep level.

Speaker 1: 6:32

And I can read yeah, no, that was good. Oh, when we're thinking about restorative justice, there are lots of metaphors that we use, and one of the ones that come to mind when you say that is like the ripple effects of an action, right, who's impacted by someone posting an anonymous comment and like, like Melissa says later, like this wasn't a particularly mean comment either, right, it was just naming that Janine was less experienced than Melissa, which was true, right, but the way that Janine internalized that Set off this whole chain of events. And so, yeah, someone says the comment, janine is offended, makes Snarky comments about, you know, maybe being the better teacher, then Melissa in some way, shape or form, and you know we have all these high jinks where not just Janine's affected, but Janine and Melissa are affected, all the students and Janine and Melissa's classrooms are infected. Eva, the, the principles impacted. And you know Imagining, you know the conversation with Courtney's parents, perhaps they're they're impacted too. When we identify a comment like that being the top of My iceberg, we might not see, like, all the things that were going underneath the surface for Janine, right, it might have been something along the lines of an inferiority complex.

Speaker 1: 7:53

We've seen across the show and we'll continue to see the ways that Janine feels insecure about the way that She stacks up against her colleagues. You desperately wants approval from everybody, right, and you know those are societal pressures that are put on her in addition to things that are Within her upbringing and the way that she was raised. And you know We see that play out later in the show. But it's also reflective of the culture of that school right where it's hard to ask for help. It's hard to. It's hard to ask for help for a couple reasons. One You don't want to be seen as weak to. You don't want to be made fun of there Just lots of things that are compounding and contributing and in order to heal and make things as right as possible Using a restorative lens, those things need to be addressed, not just like people need to stop posting mean comments.

Speaker 3: 8:44

So I think what was really powerful about a certain interaction between Janine and Melissa was this experienced veteran teacher who was really just so used to tuning out the noise and focusing on just being present, and Janine, who was Going through all the pressures of society. You can see her during her journey Throughout the series where she really starts to take ownership, and this is something that happens for a lot of brand new teachers, where Teachers are expected to be experts at everything and anything that looks like we are not experts at everything It's really can Damage your self-esteem. And so there's also this conversation about Unconditional self-worth, and I think Melissa is really great at being able to tune out just some of the comments And she's making light of it and she's not really taking it to heart.

Speaker 2: 9:45

Well, maybe if you hadn't been making fun of me yesterday I wouldn't have gotten defensive. I mean, i was goofing, unlike when you called me a bad teacher, something I would never call you, you know. I know that review hit your heart, but I deserve that.

Speaker 3: 10:02

It was really powerful, just for Melissa to not take it personally But to still name it that like it did hurt. But she didn't change how she was going to Be supportive. She was like, okay, this is gonna be a learning moment, janine. If I offered you help, i Offered you the file, we could have talked about this and Prince Blava Offered the file. So there were a lot of folks who were wanting to support and there's kind of this naive atta That comes with being able to say, oh, i'm, they're gonna come in my classroom and I'm just gonna love them and that's going to just fix everything. And Something that's also important about restorative practices is that understanding that it's not toxic positivity and you know, love is not enough of. Relationship has to be healthy. There have to be certain types of boundaries and expectations and being able to meet the needs of the party. And when we're talking about the child, the child was so gifted and high achieving that They were bored in class.

Speaker 3: 11:12

So I I noticed that I, the student, was saying like, oh, i'm already done with my work, or like going around just coming up with ways to keep herself entertained, because she was already so high and cognitively developed that she was coming up with ways to kind of keep herself entertained and stimulated, and So I think there were just so many just different layers to all that was going on in this episode.

Speaker 1: 11:42

Yeah, i want to just go back and highlight a couple of those things. Right, there were moments when Jeanine was offered help. Right, and you know the reason that someone wouldn't take the help. Right Are myriad. Right, we've talked about some of them. But even when she does make the move to say, like you know, in my naivete, in my Toxic positivity, i'm gonna sit down and be the person who, like, fixes this child, there's a lot of saviorism, there's a lot of paternalism there. Right, she has that. Sit down with Courtney, you're a leader.

Speaker 2: 12:13

Courtney and maybe that's something your other teachers didn't see about you, but I do. I know that when you tie your classmates shoelaces together and tell them to dance, you're just looking for affirmation. And, courtney, i will affirm you. We will sit down together, maybe do a puzzle I bet you love puzzles as much as I do And just work through some of those feelings together, okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 12:43

Without ever asking like what is it that you need? What's going on with you right? Never giving her a chance to respond other than, like I don't like apple juice.

Speaker 3: 12:54

There's a conversation where Jeanine was talking to Courtney the student and And Jeanine said I know you love blah, blah, blah as much as I do or puzzles as much as I do.

Speaker 3: 13:07

And because, courtney, he's decided to teach the class about an expletive with puzzles and Jeanine was making a lot of assumptions, and so Courtney Is not something, a blank slate where we tell her What she's feeling and, based upon our perceptions of her reactions, there was a lot of student voice that got left out of that and eventually They looked at the data and they saw that, and they looked at the file as well and they saw that she was supposed to be Brought to a more cognitively appropriate grade band.

Speaker 4: 13:48

My bad y'all. She was supposed to skip second grade but they told me during essence fest I missed a lot of paperwork during that month but That it got lost in the fact that there was a lot of assumptions made about her and her behavior.

Speaker 1: 14:01

Yeah, and I think it is really easy for teachers to fall into those patterns of making assumptions, because you have so many things going on and you do recognize patterns. But just because you recognize those patterns doesn't mean that's actually what's happening with the student and that's actually what that student needs. Right, students can be exhibit disruptive behavior for any number of reasons. Right, and just because somebody is, you know, slapping call me stinky on somebody's back doesn't mean that, like they're bored and distracted, there might be some interpersonal beef going on between those students that you don't know about and if you're gonna act like, oh, if I just move them up a grade level, it'll solve all the problems, but that's not actually what that student needs. I'm curious now, with your 10 plus decades of teaching, what your evolution has been to the place you're at now, where you're really focused on Inviting student voice, and how do you make the time to make that happen in the context of a very, very busy day?

Speaker 3: 15:03

um, awesome question. And I see so much of myself in Janine from Early on in my career where there was a lot of just be really nice and be sentimentalist and was like, oh, i just got to keep telling them toxic positivity and all the quotes and that will just get them to. You know, all of a sudden they'll magically want to learn. That's magical thinking. And I got to work with zoretta hammons plc, a professional learning cycle, and Zoretta Hammons work with cognitive capacity and working with neuroscience, as well as Some culturally responsive practices that really elevate the student as the agent of change instead of Them being something that, as a teacher, i pour into. It's more of a co-creating as well as leveraging student schema and background knowledge and being able to activate their schema, the background knowledge, so that they can make new content sticky and It helps them as they're growing on their leading edge of growth. So I went from being more of a Janine, which was very well meaning and well intended and A lot of intentionality, to kind of going to this like jacob, like over intellectualizing everything. Then, like I was like leaving the students kind of behind and having this like high level conversation, thinking like, oh, i just need to have this high level conversation and the students will catch on by having exposure to this. It's now more of a hybrid of everyone, because all the teachers kind of exist in these different personalities and styles, which that's humanity, that's the rich, beautiful tapestry of education and It's really now I feel more related to Between all of them like I see bits and pieces of myself and all, and so I kind of feel like I'm like in the center more, but more leaning toward like the veterans, like Barbara and Melissa, where they are able to not take things as personally.

Speaker 3: 17:15

Because I remember one time I had like a teacher review and the review is wonderful, but then I saw that like someone like put a thumbs clicked on the thumbs down, even though like 10 other people click the thumbs up, and then I let that one negative piece of feedback really like get to me, which, also, learning from Zoretta Hammond's PLC, i learned that you know that's very natural.

Speaker 3: 17:41

The brain's trying to keep you safe, so you take the one potential danger and you focus on it even though you have all of this positive feedback. You know feedback happening And so I really learned over the years to really center my self worth and have it unconditional. There's always going to be a metric, there's always going to be something external that you can use this feedback, but you can't use it as the determinant of your work. So I focus more on like getting the learning and getting to the neuroscience, as well as unless on like test scores and chasing a test score, and actually by focusing on the neuroscience and the learning, then I started to see the scores moves. I would didn't become a culturally responsive practitioner for the sake of bettering test scores. I did it because I wanted to better my students as learners and thinkers.

Speaker 1: 18:40

I'm thinking about how so much of this just takes time and experience, right, because somebody who's listening to this you might be a younger teacher. It's like yep, i hear you. I can intellectually understand that And in my day to day, where like 50 million other things are being thrown in my way, like, where do I find the spaciousness, where do I find the time to do that? What does that look like practically in your classroom?

Speaker 3: 19:05

So for me, throughout my career I really learned that I had to become a critical consumer of pedagogy and find something that really worked for me, because a lot of things can be packaged and curated very well, but then to really sit with what works for you and what works for you in service of having those students grow as the agent of change, still centering the students. You still have your needs so you can be your best as an educator, but making sure that I wasn't just like hopping on trends, because the trends come and go, but when you really learn what works for students and then you can, you have the ability and the space to kind of take content and make it your own. It becomes really authentic and it becomes very powerful that you are having that journey with your students. I know that, even though I've taught second grade 10 years, every single year is very, very different. The cohorts are different, the learners coming in with all of their experiences are different. There's some patterns and certain things that you start to notice over time. But it's really important to be able to invest in what will better your practice.

Speaker 3: 20:32

And for me, what I found was getting to Zerayda Hammond's work, the culturally responsive pedagogy I was great. I was pretty great with the multicultural education and then understanding social justice education And I was really strong in those areas, which is great for creating the conditions for student trust, which then transfers over to academics when they need to take academic risk. They trust you because they know that you validated all of these experiences for them. They trust you as a person And now you can transfer that over to a student who's like I've never worked with division before or arrays and multiplication. I'm confident enough with you that I can be okay with not getting it right the first time and I don't have to focus as much on perfection as much as the process.

Speaker 3: 21:26

And it was really important for me to be able to then, like, have that entry point into where I wanted to go as an educator and having guidance as well from instructional coaches, from my administrators And they had great vision as well And then getting to work with Zerayda Hammond's work. It inspired me to then learn from Betty Kay Gardner and her book Getting to Got It, which was talking about the cognitive structures, and then it all started really making sense and it actually really helped me understand humanity as a whole And I was on the receiving end of that as a college student, as I had Indigenous professors who were already doing that work. It was just a different name to it, and now I really understand the power of what I've learned from Indigenous practices, as well as from Zerayda Hammond's work.

Speaker 1: 22:22

Over time. This is something that you learn from multiple teachers. And for those who are like putting Derek on a pedestal right now, right, like you know, derek, i'm not going to. I'm going to speak for you when I say, like you're not like a perfect representation of like what all teachers should describe to be even like what you were saying, like what is it that works for you and in your context? But what I want people to take away is right, like the time and intentionality and the reflection that it took to get to where you are, and you should be applauded for that. Thank you, just accept that. Just accept it. Just accept it, because I feel like you were just going to go like and disqualify a bunch of the things that I said.

Speaker 1: 23:06

I was totally wrong to do that.

Speaker 3: 23:09

So thank you for holding me to being able to, Being able to be in the mode of receiving and I really do appreciate that it with Zerayda Hammond's work. It was a good two year cycle and I didn't see myself shift to where I feel really comfortable about it till year three or four. So it was a process and it was about having to be okay with not getting it right the first time and also having that sense of grace And you see this all over in Janine and the series where Janine wants to have something fixed really quickly.

Speaker 1: 23:47

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Speaker 3: 23:55

Now back to the show. Same thing with Jacob. Okay, all I know is when somebody roasts you.

Speaker 4: 24:00

you got to roast them back. Our teachers used to roast us, and if they didn't, we wouldn't have respected them. You're just getting clowned Of course I'm being clowned.

Speaker 1: 24:07

Okay, i don't know how to roast.

Speaker 4: 24:10

It's not that hard. You just kind of have to take what people give you, like your old mothball sweater, vest, looking boy.

Speaker 3: 24:18

Simple, yet cutting Okay he wanted to have like a one-off fix by saying like, by trying though to engage with the roasting, and you could see that he failed with it.

Speaker 2: 24:31

Look at like Ron Weasley. If he was a pickup artist. This man looked like he dreamed of haunt us.

Speaker 1: 24:40

Well, look at you Old, blue shirt, tan pants, wearing guy With your bright white shoes and the laces all tied up into a little bow Yeah no way Those are accidentally falling off, mr Vampire weekend.

Speaker 2: 25:01

That really hurt my feelings, rihim, i am. I am so sorry You should be With that twilight-shame mouth. Ha ha, johnny.

Speaker 3: 25:13

But then he came back and he went from Gregory that, or he got inspired by his conversation with Gregory to then intertwine it with something that he already has down And he's really and Jacob's really great with the intellectualization as well as like the content piece of it. So then, by being able to take something and blend it, he created something new and that was the innovation piece of it.

Speaker 2: 25:43

The movies are hilarious. Let's try and incorporate some of the lessons into the roast. Oh, pull in the head. I forced the other looking boy. My man's got eight been sleeping four, score and seven years ago, bags all up under his eyes. Hey Blink, hey Blink, can you just help? Yes, yes, good work team.

Speaker 3: 25:59

He didn't just try to jump in and replicate something, because it quickly became off of us as inauthentic and the students were like not really buying into him, trying to roast, And then they actually just came back even harder at him. And then by being able to then blend this into this new thing, I always am inspired by watching that moment. And it's not just to be gimmicky. There's an authenticity piece to it with Jacob, because Jacob is still so such a content, high intellectual type of NPR person And like that's kind of his you know caricature in this and Abed Elementary And so he plays that role. But at the same time there was like that moment of growth. It wasn't just a sensationalization of like I'm going to hop in and just replicate something for them And all of a sudden the kids are gonna vibe with me.

Speaker 1: 26:57

Right, i think, across so many differences especially you know we're both black men like having this conversation, statistically speaking, the people who are listening to this are white women. Right, teaching people who don't look like them. Right, and I think you know we can speak to white women who are listening. But like speaking to everybody broadly, right, showing up as who you are, not trying to be somebody else, is the way that we build connection and strengthen, like trusting and authentic relationships. Right, restorative justice is about repairing harm in relationships when it happens. But so much of the work is like that proactive building and strengthening to prevent future harm and have something to restore back to. I think about so many times when I've been in conversations with teachers about their inability or like their belief that they can't be vulnerable or they can't be themselves with their students for fear that you know their students will take advantage of that. Their students will see that as weakness. And to do this work well, to teach well, to be in right relationship with people right, you have to show up as yourself. You don't have to, like trauma, dump on everybody. You don't have to share all the things at all times. People will know that it is safe to share with you who they are, when you show them who they are. Right. We can't expect students or people to do things that we're not willing to do within the context of our relationship either. Right, That's from teachers to students. That's from teachers to teachers as colleagues. Like that's from admin to staff And you know, across all the different dynamics and relationships that play at play in schools or in the world, and to demonstrate that vulnerability is a difficult thing because so many of us have been hurt, so many of us have been burned by being vulnerable in certain spaces I know I have.

Speaker 1: 28:52

I often tell the story of like some of my deep seated trust issues that I'm still working through now stem from incident in eighth grade where a friend betrayed my trust And like those things. Even though I've been through therapy, been in lots of relationships that are trusting Like, i still like hold back some of myself And you know, as you were sharing some of that is just for psychological, physical safety. That like is ingrained into, like my neuro anatomy, right.

Speaker 1: 29:20

Those are the neural pathways that have formed And to undo that and to build new neural pathways is something that's gonna take time and practice And you know, as you were saying, like sometimes it's not gonna work the first time, it's not gonna go perfectly. It's an ongoing process And I think, even as we're thinking about, like one of the other major themes that I saw in this episode about, like the use of humor and when it's appropriate to use humor, is something that is learned And within the context of relationships, it might be appropriate or not. As somebody who has done a lot of restorative justice work, circle keeping work, one of my teachers taught me that when facilitating vulnerable space for folks, it is best to be you know, trauma, sensitive trauma, responsive trauma informed and use humor in ways that you know are going to connect rather than like separate and divide or like single someone out. Right, The form of roasting right Within the context of friends and people who are in good relationship, might be something that's really fun, healthy, good natured, but if you are calling someone out for things that they might be insecure about or have trauma around, right, you're going to lose that person.

Speaker 1: 30:35

You're also going to tell all the other people in your space that it's not safe to show up as who I am because I'm going to be made fun of. And again, in some cases, when you have those relationships where there is equity and you know, those kinds of conversations, those kinds of comments go both ways and are meant in love and are received in love, that's okay. But I think we need to be really careful about making those assumptions when we go about using humor, because it can have some damaging consequences.

Speaker 3: 31:11

Yes, and when we have folks who have historically been in spaces where they've had to be on guard, it is really difficult to build connections and build bridges by pointing out what is dissimilar or how folks are not alike. It's not to say that those are not beautiful differences and we can't grow from them. It's more that, as you're developing a report with someone, oftentimes with humans there are neurons. we need to be able to have those connections and to see the humanity and honor that humanity and one other. and well, roasting is something that can be done and to make things light, it is something that I find you have to really have a good rapport with someone to understand what it means. And you could see the cross-cultural, you know intercultural play where you know Gregor. he understood it immediately. I mean he's like oh, that's what they're doing, and then you know. then you also had intergenerational, where Barbara's like Barbara have you ever been roasted by your students?

Speaker 4: 32:38

One they're five. Two they respect me. Three what would they even say?

Speaker 3: 32:44

It was really cool to kind of see the different, because I've never been there. I've seen some veteran teachers really like why are you concerned that a student is you know XYZ? Because they're just saying that they're commenting on your clothes, because they're five And that's exactly what five-year-olds do, or six or seven-year-olds. They're like that's part of it. And like me as a new teacher, i was like, oh, i don't know, does this mean I'm distracting because I'm wearing this shirt? And they're like no, they're just saying it's a bright shirt, don't worry about it. Even though they're supposed to be focused on the content, the first thing that's coming out of their mouth is that your shirt is quirky.

Speaker 3: 33:27

So like I was in that Janine's phase where I was like overthinking every little thing And I was like, no, so now actually I got to show up and the students, they respect that I also, i got ahead. I'm like I'm involved And they're kind of like, oh, okay, and they just kind of go with it. It's not something that I feel like it's taking away from the power of the work that we're doing. It's like the presentation politics of it is something that's surface level And having those deeper connections is much more powerful than it transcends so many things that we use to kind of shield ourselves from one another.

Speaker 1: 34:12

Speaking to connection, the last thing that I wanted to highlight was the bet that was going on between Ava and Mr Johnson and Barbara. Right And not for the sake of like the story, but you know the end result of that right, where Janine had the moment where, like, oh, barbara believes in me and Janine and her people pleasing self, desperate to get approval from Barbara, like having an immense sense of confidence, knowing that someone believed in her, is something that I don't think we should like gloss over too quickly. Right, of course, in the show it's played for last as Janine, as someone who is, like, super attention seeking, but it's really important that people are affirmed for the things that they want to be affirmed for if we're trying to build organizations, schools, relationships that are places where people feel valued and seen.

Speaker 4: 35:06

Oh, hey, barbara, nothing to see here, just Janine going on and on about what a handful Courtney is and how she can handle the situation at all. Is that so Fine, i guess? technically Janine succeeded. She figured out the Courtney needs to be bumped up a grade. Guess you win the bet.

Speaker 2: 35:28

Barbara, you believed in me.

Speaker 1: 35:32

Right, it is not necessarily Barbara's job as the kindergarten teacher to mentor and affirm Janine as a teacher, as a person moving through the world. But when you're trying to build an organization, trying to build a community where people do feel valued, seen, heard, those moments are so important Here. Of course, in the show it's played for laughs in the form of a bet, but when Barbara does take the time to say those things, when Melissa takes the time to have that heart to heart conversation with Janine, right, that is what continues to build and strengthen those relationships so these people can move forward together in a good way and do the hard, hard work of educating young people.

Speaker 3: 36:19

Yes, and I appreciate that you highlighted it because I really thought that that was such a great redemption moment. I'm not direct redemption, but I thought because at the beginning of the episode, barbara sees someone and they're like, oh, you changed my life. And Barbara's like I don't know who that is And like that was kind of you know it's for a joke, but at the same time then later on for her to invest in Janine, like that it shows that Barbara understands like the power of the word And is kind of a juxtaposition where, like Janine needs that affirmation And Barbara's like this is just what I do And she, you know, she owns that with full confidence. She like changed the life. Okay, that's exactly what we do. I don't remember who that is, but I changed that person's life And then she just goes about it and even through the bets on Janine, which was just really powerful, and I think it was a full circle moment, because I remember watching it the first time and I was like, okay, i get the joke, because sometimes I, when you're in the community and you start to develop and build a reputation or rapport, you'll have some students and they have siblings, cousins, and they'll see you in the hallway or something, and I was like I missed Carlson and I do promise I learned their names after.

Speaker 3: 37:48

But like maybe the first time I'm like oh hi, how are you? And like I use a big way to address them, so I'm not dismissing them, but I might not know their name, but I thought that was a really good moment that came full circle, where it was just the whole. This is how I am. I'm going to always invest in others, and so Barbara really, really just think, had this bright gold moment there.

Speaker 1: 38:16

Now you've heard from us. Now we want to hear from you. Drop your restorative justice reflections from this episode in the comments And, if you want to be a part of a live community conversation about this show, we're hosting a live event on July 31st Unpacking Restorative Justice Lessons from Abba Elementary Link down below. Hope to see you there. Thank you so much, derek, for sharing all this. We just have some quick, hitter fun questions to take us out of here. If you were to be a character on Abba Elementary, who would you be or what role would you want to play?

Speaker 3: 38:47

Oh, in a dream world, i would love to be a parapro. I would love to, or a teacher assistant. I would love to be someone who could like kind of be like a little bit more cynical and just kind of like watching and like injects the physician of like being in Jeanine's class and kind of being the parapro who is kind of there to, i don't know, be like a selected check or something like that. And that's saying because parapro I know are professional and they're phenomenal, but it would just be like really interesting to see someone like that, she like an adult, she also kind of has the baby in the classroom And that I think that would be really cool.

Speaker 1: 39:38

Again, derek, thank you so much for your time, your stories, your wisdom, your reflections on this. I remind us again where people can support you, your work, in the ways that you want to be supported.

Speaker 3: 39:49

Thank you for having me and it's such an honor to be able to discuss my favorite episode of Abbot Elementary. We both share that as our favorite and it's such a powerful, such a powerful episode and such a well written show that just elevates so many things in our schools. and I can be found on Instagram at black and bright and second, and my name is Derek Carlson. he, him and I, teach in the Chicago land area. I teach second grade. It is been such an honor and I really am looking forward to seeing your platform and see this podcast really just go to the stars and beyond. Thank you for having me, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 40:34

We'll be back very soon with our restorative justice reflections on Abbot, elementary season one, episode six, gifted program. But until then, take care.